Within a negative sentence, where do I put 一起?
For example:
- 我們不一起上漢語課
- 我們一起不上漢語課
What's the grammar rule?
在一個否定句里面，我因該把“一起”放在哪里？
例如：
- 我們不一起上漢語課
- 我們一起不上漢語課
有什么語法規(guī)則嗎
#2 valikor ：
I do not know a grammar rule to answer your question,but I do think both of those sentences sound wrong.
I would probably use a different phrasing, such as oneof the following:
我們不是一起上漢語課的。
我們不是同一個班的學生。
etc.
Hopefully someone smarter than me can give you a moredefinite answer. Good luck!
我不知道有能解答你的問題的語法，但我覺得這兩句都錯了。
我可能會用不同的句子，如下：
我們不是一起上漢語課的。
我們不是同一個班的學生。
希望樓下有大神能解答你的問題，好運！
Improving：
Thank you for your answer!
The problem is that the example I wrote is in a ChineseGrammar...but the solution is not indicated...so, I guess, one of those twomust be right, but I can't say which one... :wall
Both sentences can be understood, but differently. The first one means that we don't dosomething together. The second one meansthat together we do not do something. Sothe first one means that "we don't go to the same Chinese class",whereas the second one means that "we decide not to go to the ChineseClass (and go to the cinema or go hiking, etc)".
I don't know the grammar rule, but as a Chinese, I thinkboth of them are right, but they have different meanings.
- 我們不一起上漢語課
We don't have Chinese lesson together.
- 我們一起不上漢語課
We don't have Chinese lesson.
Whenever“不” put, it negates the next verb after itself.
such as:我不喜歡做作業(yè)，"不" negates the next verb "喜歡", means"dislike"
but 我喜歡不做作業(yè), "不"negatesthe next verb "做"，means "don't do"
So I think both these sentences are right, it dependswhat do you want to say
我不知道有什么語法規(guī)則，但作為一個中國人，我覺得兩個都沒問題，但有不同的意思。
- 我們不一起上漢語課
我們不一起上漢語課。
- 我們一起不上漢語課
我們不上漢語課。
不管“不”這個字放在哪，它使它的下一個動詞變成否定了。
例如：我不喜歡做作業(yè)，"不" 否定了動詞 "喜歡", 意思是“不喜歡”
但是“我喜歡不做作業(yè)”，“不”否定了動詞“做”，意思是“不做”
所以我覺得兩個句子都是對的，這取決于你想怎么說。
Improving：
So, they are both right? ...Then, why in that exercise Iam asked to find the right one?
所以他們都是對的？…那么為什么我的練習題會叫我找出正確的那個？(這是多坑爹的練習題啊←_←)
Roddy：
Which book is this, and what's the full question?
哪一本書？全題是怎么問的？
Improving
It is a Chinese Grammar book for Italians edited byHoepli. That unit is about the negation "不" and the otherone "沒", and the exercise just ask to choose the right sentence!
I agree with you all. When I read them for the firsttime, they both don't sound wrong to me, just different in meanings. But,because I was asked to find the right one, I thought there was an error in thefirst sentence or in the second one...I simply wonder if there is a particularrule or a criterion for considering as "right" one of them!
I agree with valikor above; both sentences soundungrammatical to me. I've already spotted a mis-use of 一起 and 不 in theanswer key of the Corso Base as edited by Hoepli.
I think there are several issues here, and I think noneof them relate directly to 不 vs 沒. One of them is where adverbs that are not monosyllabic referentialadverbs (in the words of Yip & Rimmington) come with respect to 不. The otheris the inherent dissonance of the pairing disyllabic adverbs that must existwithout 地 with a monosyllabic negative adverb. You could pick one based onthe first criterion alone, but I'm not sure you have met adverbial ordering inChinese yet.
Then I'm pretty sure the correct answer is the 1st one.As you can see both are the basic structure--主、謂、賓 for a sentence.
It's practically where you place the 否定 that makesthe difference, nothing to do with the 一起.
As in 我們不一起上漢語課, orderly 主語、否定、狀語、謂語、賓語, the 狀語‘一起’ is modifying the verb 上 and then thepreceding 不 is negativing the 狀語‘一起’；conversely, 我們一起不上漢語課, orderly 主語、狀語、否定、謂語、賓語. Since the negatory gobefore the 謂語, instead, which is accordingly negativing the verb 上.
Coupled with the interpretation all the other guysposted, I think it'll tackle your hassle
Oh, almostforgot, the 2nd sentence is grammatical correct, but naturally wrong. It's asif when you use it in a talk with a native, they can tell both your meaning andyour origin. Thinking about the "long time no see" in English.
啊，幾乎忘了，第2句在語法上是正確的，但實際用法錯了。如果你在街上和當?shù)厝诉@么說，它們也能明白你的意思。就像英語里的"long time no see"一樣。
Mindmaxd：
我們不一起上漢語課We 不一起, means we are not together.
- 我們一起不上漢語課We 一起不 means we are together not
So you they are all right,it you want use 沒 replace 不,the firstone will be better.
我們不一起上漢語課， “我們” “不一起”, 意思是我們不一起
- 我們一起不上漢語課 “我們” “一起不” 意思是我們一起不
所以兩句都是對的，但如過第1句里用“沒”來代替“不”會更好。
陳德聰：
My firstinstinct when I see this type of question is that the answer they want you topick is "we're not in the same class" and not "we both decide (atogether decision) to not go to class", just since usually I feel likepeople who write textbooks put in these kinds of examples to give you the chanceto pretend you are a model student and not to say "hey we like to skipclass".
Either way bothsound funny to me personally, I would say 我們不在一起上漢語課 to meanthat we aren't in the same class.
Would you say 我們在一起上漢語課？一起 is an adverb here, and 在 would convert it to an object, splitting it off from the verbphrase 上漢語課 and making it sound odd (to my ears).
I'm not surewhat you mean that it would convert it into an object... It's still anadverbial phrase... I think the reason I inserted the 在 in thenegative is because it feels awkward negating 一起 here... Though Iguess not in every sentence ever, "為什么不一起上課？"doesn't give me the same heebyjeeby feeling.
