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絕望之門:西班牙工業(yè)鬼鎮(zhèn)掠影,房市崩盤導(dǎo)致年產(chǎn)門板七百萬扇的小鎮(zhèn)瀕臨衰亡

整理時間:2012-11-29 10:54 來源:m.z236.cn 作者:編輯 點(diǎn)擊:

【樓主】月如表妹2012-11-28 11:48
» 轉(zhuǎn)自龍騰,原帖地址每日郵報(bào)新聞標(biāo)題:龍騰網(wǎng)版權(quán)所有 Doorway to despair: Glimpse inside Spanishindustrial ghost town that produced seven million doors a year which has been decimated by housing crash絕望之門:西班牙工業(yè)鬼鎮(zhèn)掠影,房市崩盤導(dǎo)致年產(chǎn)木門七百萬套的工業(yè)小鎮(zhèn)瀕臨衰亡譯者:珈藍(lán)一若葉國家:西班牙原文鏈接:新聞翻譯:·Duringthe construction boom, most of the doors for the 800,000 new houses a year werebuilt in Villacanas·Sincethe housing bubble burst, the town has been left desolate and is strugglingwith unemployment problems·房地產(chǎn)開發(fā)熱潮期間,西班牙每年新建的80套住房中絕大多數(shù)的門都在維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)生產(chǎn)!ぷ苑康禺a(chǎn)泡沫破裂以來,該鎮(zhèn)已陷入荒蕪,為失業(yè)問題所困擾。Atits peak, it was a bustling town manufacturing millions of wooden doors tocater for the housing boom in Spain.Butall that’s left now is a ghost town with an abandoned factory that is a starkreminder of more prosperous times.Villacanasis one of the many former buoyant industrial Spanish towns that is nowstruggling with huge unemployment problems.這里曾是一個喧鬧繁榮的小鎮(zhèn),在它的鼎盛期,每年有數(shù)以百萬計(jì)的木門在這里制造,以應(yīng)付西班牙房地產(chǎn)市場的旺盛需求但現(xiàn)在,這里只剩下一間廢廠,一座鬼鎮(zhèn),提醒著人們那段輝煌歲月已成為泡影。作為西班牙眾多曾經(jīng)蓬勃發(fā)展的工業(yè)城鎮(zhèn)之一,維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)現(xiàn)在正被龐大的失業(yè)問題所困擾。Stark: The sun rises over Villacanas,55 miles from Madrid. At its peak, it was a buoyant manufacturing town makingmillions of wooden doors荒涼:在距離馬德里55英里外的維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)上,太陽照樣升起。在它的鼎盛期,每年有數(shù)以百萬計(jì)的木門在這座生機(jī)勃勃的工業(yè)重鎮(zhèn)上生產(chǎn)。Abandoned: The terrain of the Mavisadoor factory is strewn with rubbish. During the boom years, the factoryemployed 5,700 people and produced seven million wooden doors a year廢棄:瑪維莎制門廠的場地上散落著垃圾。在經(jīng)濟(jì)繁榮期,這座工廠雇傭了5700名員工,每年可以生產(chǎn)700萬套木門。Destroyed: Material is scatteredaround an old working bench inside the abandoned Mavisa door factory. Since itsclosure, the town of Villacanas has been struggling with huge unemploymentproblems破壞:廢棄的瑪維莎制門廠里,木材在老式工作臺周圍散落一地。自該廠倒閉以來,維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)始終被龐大的失業(yè)問題所困擾著。Between2001 and 2007, Spain was leading the property boom in Europe with pricesincreasing annually at an average of around 13 per cent.Around800,000 houses were being built a year and the people of Villacas were part ofSpain’s middle class enjoying high wages and permanent jobs.從2001年到2007年,西班牙始終走在歐洲樓市熱潮的前列,年平均增長率為13%,每年的新建住房在80萬套左右。維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)的居民和其他西班牙中產(chǎn)階級一樣享受著高薪酬和長期性工作崗位。Duringthe construction boom, the majority of doors used with the new developmentswere made in this small industrial town.Approximatelyseven million doors a year were once assembled at the Mavisa factory whichemployed a workforce of almost 5,700 people.在房地產(chǎn)建設(shè)熱潮中,絕大部分新建住房里的門都由這座工業(yè)小鎮(zhèn)生產(chǎn),斁S莎制門廠的年產(chǎn)量一度達(dá)到了700萬套,員工總數(shù)接近5700人。Desolate: The state of the Mavisa doorfactory is a stark reminder of more prosperous times when the population ofVillacanas was part of Spain's middle class enjoying high wages and permanentjobs荒蕪:瑪維莎制門廠的現(xiàn)狀提醒著人們,那個繁榮的時代已經(jīng)過去,那時候,維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)的人們還和其他西班牙中產(chǎn)階級一樣享受著高薪酬和長期性工作崗位。Bleak outlook: A man crosses an oldbridge leading to the other side of the railroad track in Villacanas. Times noware different from the boom years when Spain was building some 800,000 houses ayear前景黯淡:維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)上,一名男子獨(dú)自穿過老舊的天橋,到鐵軌的另一側(cè)去。那段西班牙每年新建住房80萬套的繁榮時期早已成為過去。Shutting up shop: A market salesmanpacks up his unsold vegetables after a day on the local market打烊:一天結(jié)束的時候,當(dāng)?shù)厥袌隼锏囊幻N售人員在整理沒賣出去的蔬菜。Empty: A neon sign illuminates on abar in Calle Mayor. The town has been left desolate with the Villacanasindustrial park now empty and redundant空置:霓虹燈照亮了卡勒大街上的一家酒吧。維拉肯納斯的工業(yè)園區(qū)已是人去樓空,整座小鎮(zhèn)陷入了荒蕪。Quiet: A pedestrian crosses the streetdevoid of traffic. With Spain in the grip of recession and the housing bubbleburst, Villacanas is typical of many former buoyant industrial Spanish townsnow struggling with huge problems沉寂:一名行人穿過沒有車流的馬路。隨著西班牙經(jīng)濟(jì)衰退和房地產(chǎn)泡沫破滅的推進(jìn),作為典型的曾經(jīng)蓬勃發(fā)展的西班牙工業(yè)城鎮(zhèn)之一,維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)正被龐大的失業(yè)問題所困擾。Thenthe economic downturn hit in 2008.TheSpanish government estimates that over 780,000 houses built since 2005 have notbeen sold.Thehousing bubble has burst and the country is in the grip of recession.然后,2008年的經(jīng)濟(jì)衰退重創(chuàng)了這個國家。據(jù)西班牙政府估計(jì),2005年以后新建的住房有超過78萬套至今仍在待售。房地產(chǎn)泡沫的破滅使得整個國家陷入了經(jīng)濟(jì)衰退。Meanwhile,the town has been left almost desolate with the Villacanas industrial park nowempty and redundant.Thetown is reminiscent of the country’s situation as a whole.Theunemployment rate in Spain stands at 25 per cent with more than half of youngpeople out of workBetweenJuly and September 2012, 85,000 more people joined the ranks of the unemployedraising the total to 5.78 million, according to the National StatisticsInstitute.與此同時,維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)幾近荒廢,工業(yè)園區(qū)已是人去樓空?梢韵胍姡@座城鎮(zhèn)已成為整個西班牙現(xiàn)狀的縮影。西班牙失業(yè)率為25%,一半以上的年輕人沒有工作。根據(jù)西班牙國家統(tǒng)計(jì)局報(bào)告,2012年7月至9月間,有超過8.5萬的西班牙人加入到失業(yè)大軍中,總?cè)藬?shù)已達(dá)到578萬人。Scraps: Two men drag unfinished doorsbehind them, to be used as burning wood for their stoves at home, on theterrain of the abandoned Mavisa door factory廢品:被遺棄的瑪維莎制門廠場地上,兩名男子拖著未完工的木門走過,帶回家做爐子的燃料。A helping hand: A Red Cross worker arrangesboxes with biscuits while unemployed Spaniards (right) wait in line for a foodhand out inside a Red Cross post伸出援手:一名紅十字會的工作人員在整理裝滿餅干的紙箱,而西班牙失業(yè)者們(右)正排著隊(duì)等候領(lǐng)取紅十字會發(fā)放的食物。Deserted: The Mavisa door factory ispictured it its derelict state with materials scattered everywhere. Since theeconomic downturn hit in 2008, the housing bubble has burst and the governmentestimates that over 780,000 houses built since 2005 have not been sold廢棄:瑪維莎制門廠呈現(xiàn)出一派荒廢的景象,材料散落滿地。2008年遭受經(jīng)濟(jì)衰退重創(chuàng)以來,樓市泡沫徹底破滅,據(jù)政府部門估計(jì),2005年以后新建的住房有超過78萬套仍未售出。Forlorn: A couple strolls along CalleMayor in Villacanas. Across Spain, some 800,000 people have lost their jobsover the past year凄涼:一對行人走在維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)的卡勒大街上。在過去的一年里,超過80萬的西班牙人成為失業(yè)者。Forthose under 25, the unemployment rate is at 52 per cent.Overthe past 12 months some 800,000 people have lost their jobs, proving that theeconomic crisis is tightening its grip on the country.25歲以下青年人失業(yè)率已達(dá)52%。在過去的12個月里,超過80萬人失去了他們的工作,這個事實(shí)表明,經(jīng)濟(jì)危機(jī)正在進(jìn)一步吞噬這個國家。Spainis under pressure to ask for outside aid to help deal with its debts. Thecountry is in its second recession in three years.Ithas already been granted a 100 billion Euro bailout for its troubled bankswhile many of its regional governments are also in bad financial shape.迫于壓力,西班牙正在請求外部援助,以解決其債務(wù)問題。這個國家正經(jīng)歷著三年來的第二次衰退。該國政府已批準(zhǔn)了1000億歐元的緊急融資,救助那些陷入困境的本國銀行。而許多地方政府也同樣面臨著糟糕的財(cái)務(wù)狀況。SpanishPrime Minister Mariano Rajoy's government, which pledged to reduce unemploymentin its electoral campaign last year, has introduced austerity measures andfinancial and labour reforms to convince investors it has a grip on itsaccounts but they have yet to show any positive effect on the economy.西班牙首相馬里亞諾·拉霍伊領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的政府在去年的選舉活動中承諾,將竭力減少失業(yè)率。他們出臺了一系列的緊縮措施以及金融市場和勞動力市場改革,試圖說服投資者,他們對財(cái)政問題已胸有成竹,卻沒能對經(jīng)濟(jì)產(chǎn)生任何積極性的影響。Distraught: Laid off workers who usedto work at the Artevi door factory stand around a fire to stay warm during apicket to prevent machinery leaving the factory煩躁:原奧特維制門廠的下崗工人們圍在火堆旁取暖,他們自發(fā)組成了一個工人糾察隊(duì),防止有人將機(jī)器運(yùn)離工廠。Forty-eight year old former doorfactory worker Angel Perez Fernandez (centre) eats paella together with hisfamily. His 40-year-old wife, Maria Regine Bueno Villar (right) used to work asa cleaning lady at door factories, and his 20-year-old daughter is unemployed48歲的前制門廠工人安格·佩雷斯·費(fèi)爾南德斯(中)和他的家人們一起吃西班牙燴飯。他的妻子,40歲的瑪利亞·雷吉娜·布埃諾·比利亞爾(右)原本是制門廠的一名清潔女工。而他20歲的女兒至今沒有找到工作。Cutting a lonely figure: A man playshis guitar trying to make money on an empty Plaza Mayor孤獨(dú)剪影:一名男子在空蕩蕩的市政廣場上演奏吉他,好掙點(diǎn)小錢。Eerie: Villacanas is reminiscent ofSpain's current situation. The unemployment rate stands at 25 per cent and morethan half of young people are out of work荒誕:維拉肯納斯鎮(zhèn)很容易讓人聯(lián)想到整個西班牙的現(xiàn)狀,失業(yè)率高達(dá)25%,一半以上的年輕人沒有工作。Organisationssuch as the Spanish Red Cross and the Catholic Church charity organisationCaritas say unemployment and the austerity measures are leaving tens ofthousands of people in need of food and financial help.Thereare now 1.8million households in Spain in which no one has work.And,it is the once-booming construction sector that has been the worst hit, with56,100 fewer jobs.像西班牙紅十字會和天主教慈善機(jī)構(gòu)博愛會這樣的民間組織表示,失業(yè)問題和財(cái)政緊縮政策使得成千上萬的西班牙人陷入饑餓,亟需援助。在西班牙,失業(yè)者人數(shù)已高達(dá)180萬人。曾經(jīng)繁榮的建筑業(yè)如今已成為受創(chuàng)最深的行業(yè),有5.61萬個工作崗位從此消失。[共有46條評論,按受歡迎程度排序]Noneed to go to Spain DM,have a look around the UK-Robbo, Leicestershire, 27/11/2012 6:35沒必要去西班牙取景,在英國四處看看就知道了。(萊斯特郡)———————————————————————————————————————If you thinkthat's depressing you should try visiting Rotherham.- john ypres,Ypres, Belgium, 27/11/2012 6:34如果你覺得這片景象就夠慘的了,你應(yīng)該去趟羅瑟蘭。(伊普斯,比利時)———————————————————————————————————————Take a lookat most English towns before we are upset by Spain..- oldman,leicester, 27/11/2012 6:46在為西班牙操心以前,麻煩先看一眼那些英格蘭城鎮(zhèn)。(萊斯特郡)———————————————————————————————————————As stated inthe article,Spain has been granted 100 billion FOR THE BANKS, not for thepeople,who are getting zero help to get back into work or just survive,and arebeing routinely kicked out of their homes by the banksters.-eyeswideopen, london, United Kingdom, 27/11/2012 7:07就像文章里提到的那樣,西班牙政府向銀行投入了1000億歐元,卻不管那些失去工作孤立無援,或是僅僅能維持溫飽,隨時會被銀行家們趕出自己的家園的人。(英國,倫敦)———————————————————————————————————————Well theywere betrayed by traitors in government who opted to take the loans and turnthe population into debt slaves. Didn't have to do it. Iceland refused, wentbroke and are now back on their feet and free of the banksters' shackles.- Lozza,Chester, United Kingdom, 27/11/2012 11:56很好,叛徒政府出賣了他們,用貸款把人們變成了債務(wù)的奴隸。他們本不該這樣。冰島因?yàn)榫芙^還債而破產(chǎn),現(xiàn)在他們可以重新出發(fā),不再受銀行家奴役了!狝 drive arounda lot of UK's Industrial sites will shock you !!!!!!-SteveColeUKIP voter, Hitchin, United Kingdom,27/11/2012 15:19開車去趟英國鄉(xiāng)下的工業(yè)園,你會非常震驚。!(英國,希欽市)———————————————————————————————————————The U.K. isno different. In the town where I live in Wales used to be a steelworks thatwhen I started work there in 1968 employed 13,000 people.This steelworks wasrun down over a number of years until it closed in 2002.Many small littlefactories were built around the area but the wages couldn't compare with thesteelworks. Some people are now earning £100 a week less in these factoriesthan they were earning 10 years ago in the works. Mr Cameron probably wouldn'tbelieve that, but it is a fact.So we don't need to worry about Spain, Greece orPortugal,this country has gone down the pan in my short lifetime and we havelost our manufacturing jobs and the skills that used to come with them to othercountries.I just hate to think what my Grandchildren are going to do.- grayo, ebbwvale, 27/11/2012 8:46英國也沒什么兩樣。我家就在威爾士的一個小鎮(zhèn)上,1968年我參加工作的時候,那里有家聯(lián)合鋼鐵廠,雇傭著1.3萬名工人。幾十年后,聯(lián)合鋼鐵廠開始走下坡路,在2002年徹底倒閉了。這個地區(qū)有許多小型鋼鐵廠,但薪酬水平根本比不上當(dāng)年的聯(lián)合鋼鐵廠。那些廠里的工人現(xiàn)在每周只能拿到100英鎊,掙得比10年前他們干這份工作時還少?穫愊壬苍S不會相信,但這是事實(shí)。所以,我們沒必要為西班牙、希臘或是葡萄牙操心了。在我短暫的一生中,這個國家已經(jīng)在走下坡路了。我們失去了制造業(yè)的工作崗位,失去了曾經(jīng)能與其他國家比肩的科技能力。我不敢去想象,我的孫子們未來會過上什么樣的生活。(伊伯谷)———————————————————————————————————————This is whysocialism & the EU are failures.- mrtall,east london, 27/11/2012 12:20這就是社會主義和歐盟失敗的原因。(倫敦東區(qū))———————————————————————————————————————Veryreminiscent pf parts of the UK, it especially reminds me of the fate thatbefell Britain's Industrial Base during the 80s while the rest of the Countrywas being systematically asset stripped and all the wealth fed into the BankingIndustry in the center of London..- Pinback,Germany, 27/11/2012 8:53不難想見英國各地的情形,這一切尤其令我想起了上個世紀(jì)80年代降臨于英國基礎(chǔ)工業(yè)的(去工業(yè)化)命運(yùn)。國有資產(chǎn)被有計(jì)劃地剝離出售,而所有的財(cái)富都被轉(zhuǎn)移到了位于倫敦中心的銀行業(yè)中。(德國)———————————————————————————————————————I blame theEuropean Common Market for all this.- Abbs,Dublin, 27/11/2012 9:07我個人強(qiáng)烈譴責(zé)歐洲共同市場,它該為這一切負(fù)責(zé)。(都柏林)———————————————————————————————————————Two factorshave caused this. Firstly the political project known as the EU. The secondfactor is that we have moved away from capitalism and in to cronyism. Bringback the days where a fair days work was rewarded with a fair days pay andscrap the EU.- ADW,Swansea, 27/11/2012 15:54有兩個因素造成了這一切。其一,被稱為歐盟的政治工程。其二,我們已經(jīng)遠(yuǎn)離了資本主義,開始走向任人唯親的境地。我們應(yīng)該回歸過去,回到那段好好工作就能拿到好報(bào)酬的日子,取消歐盟。(斯旺西)———————————————————————————————————————We couldorder a few doors from them in order to close the open doors at our borders.- gus, balbeggie, 27/11/2012 18:25我們可以向他們訂購幾套木門,給我們邊界上敞開的大門裝上門板。(蘇格蘭,巴貝吉)———————————————————————————————————————Jakob,Bremen 11.06. No .Thats how Germany would look if we stopped buying your overpriced cars.- Larry,Lincoln, 27/11/2012 19:17(回復(fù)雅各布,不萊梅,11.06)不,如果我們停止購買你們那些昂貴的汽車,這將會是德國人的。(林肯)[來自Bremen的Jakob評論說如果德國人不再給英國補(bǔ)貼,英國就會變成西班牙人那樣。]———————————————————————————————————————This is howEngland would look like if Germany wasn't subsidisingyou!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>Thisis how the old East Germany still looks. despite billions of EU subsidies.- F Magnet,Peak District, 27/11/2012 19:54如果德國沒有繼續(xù)補(bǔ)貼你們英國佬,英國也會變成這樣!————這就是為什么東德還是老樣子,盡管歐盟已經(jīng)為他們提供了數(shù)十億歐元的補(bǔ)貼。(匹克區(qū))———————————————————————————————————————Britain next!-philip_philip, hing kong, Hong Kong, 27/11/2012 13:55英國就是下一個!(香港)———————————————————————————————————————And Rumpelstiltskin'ssorry shower still wants more, more, more of ourmoney!- napoleon XXiv, London, United Kingdom,27/11/2012 9:25而這些不愛洗澡的侏儒怪還想管我們要更多、更多、更多的錢!(英國,倫敦)[Rumpelstiltskin是德國民間故事中的侏儒狀妖怪,]———————————————————————————————————————This is how England would look like if Germanywasn't subsidising you! - Jakob, Bremen, Germany, 27/11/2012The U.K. gives more to the EU than it gets. We along with Germany are beingbled dry by the 'PIGS' countries.- jo, tunbridge wells, United Kingdom, 27/11/201220:00如果德國沒有繼續(xù)補(bǔ)貼你們英國佬,英國也會變成這樣!雅各布(德國,不萊梅)————英國給歐盟的可比從歐盟拿到的要多得多,我們跟德國一樣,正在被“金豬四國”榨干。(英國,坦布里奇韋爾斯)———————————————————————————————————————ROLL UP, ROLL UP, FREE BENEFITS, HEALTHCARE ANDHOUSING HERE IN THE UK. COME ON OVER !!!!!!!!!- Andrew, UK unfortunately, 27/11/2012 15:43快來,快來,免費(fèi)福利,醫(yī)保住房,英國應(yīng)有盡有?爝^來吧。!(大不幸列顛)———————————————————————————————————————A boom based on a housing and debt bubble. Whywon't they let the bubble burst? In the UK prices are still too high andinterest rates too low. We are in limbo until the bubble bursts and we canstart rebuilding....- UK Beach Bum, Derby, England, 27/11/2012 8:25房地產(chǎn)泡沫和債務(wù)泡沫帶來的繁榮。為什么他們不干脆讓泡沫破裂呢?英國的房價(jià)還是太高了,利率也太低了。我們正在刀尖上跳林波舞,等到泡沫破裂,我們就能開始重建了……(英國,德比郡)———————————————————————————————————————Spain should invest in building a few nuclearpowered desalination plants along its coastline; pipe the clean water inland topurpose built reservoirs that double as tourist attractions and start growingcash crops. The legendary Spanish sun will do the rest.- Catch-42, Macclesfield, United Kingdom, 27/11/20129:15西班牙應(yīng)該在海岸沿線投資幾個核動力海水淡化廠,把淡化后的海水引到內(nèi)陸,修建水庫,這樣既能吸引游客,又能開始種植經(jīng)濟(jì)作物。傳奇般的西班牙陽光將會把剩下的活兒都干完。(英國,麥克爾斯菲爾德)———————————————————————————————————————Welcometo Europe, destroying once proud nations one at a time.-DJR, Preston, 27/11/2012 20:06歡迎來到歐洲,曾經(jīng)引以為傲的國家正在被摧毀,每次一個。(普雷斯頓)———————————————————————————————————————thebegining of the Spanish problem was the 'Valencian Land Grab' this scaredeveryone...the greed of the government....the dishonesty of the lawyers, andthe Estate agents..together with the banks caused their own problems....thereare approximately 300,000 English with homes to sell in Spain without muchhope....plus the 700,000 still in the process of being half built....it willtake 20 years for Spain to get back to where it was prior to the 'Land Grab'-arram, westcliff on sea, United Kingdom, 27/11/2012 16:48西班牙問題的開端始于“瓦倫西亞搶地運(yùn)動”,這次事件嚇壞了每個人……貪婪的政府……不誠實(shí)的律師,還有地產(chǎn)代理商。他們和銀行一起釀造了自己的苦果……近30萬的英國人在西班牙擁有自己的房產(chǎn),已經(jīng)沒有賣出去的希望了……此外還有70萬套房子仍然在建……西班牙需要花上20年才能回到“搶地運(yùn)動”以前的境況。(英國,韋斯特克利夫的海上)———————————————————————————————————————Thisis how England would look like if Germany wasn't subsidising you! - Jakob,Bremen, Germany, 27/11/2012 11:06 Hans, you are certainly subsidising mostcountries, but certainly not UK, remember we've always been a net contributor,we subsidising all the Club Med countries.-crabfat, Exeter, United Kingdom, 27/11/2012 19:20如果德國沒有繼續(xù)補(bǔ)貼你們英國佬,英國也會變成這樣!雅各布(德國,不萊梅)————漢斯,你們確實(shí)援助了大多數(shù)的國家,但肯定不包括英國,別忘了我們一直都是凈貢獻(xiàn)國,我們援助了所有的“地中海俱樂部”國家。(英國,?速愄)[地中海俱樂部是法國旅游公司專為單身漢開設(shè)的俱樂部,這里特指地中海沿岸的歐洲國家過于安逸貪圖享樂的生活方式。]———————————————————————————————————————Everywhereis in recession, but Spain shouldn't ask for EU money when its banks are subsiding its top football clubs and have been fordecades. Call in those debts first.-h0m3r, Leicester, 27/11/2012 19:31到處都在經(jīng)濟(jì)衰退,但西班牙不應(yīng)該跟歐盟要錢,他們的銀行仍在為頂級足球俱樂部注資,他們已經(jīng)這樣干了十來年。先把他們欠的債務(wù)收回來。(萊斯特)
作者:阿適2012-11-28 12:56
專業(yè)挽尊二十年歐洲看來不會成為一個強(qiáng)大的整體了,今后就是中美二分天下的趕腳?
作者:關(guān)羽字二爺2012-11-28 12:57
加泰羅尼亞都想脫離西班牙自己過小日子了...想起之前的蘇格蘭想脫離聯(lián)合王國...歐洲的好多國家基礎(chǔ)太脆弱了
作者:ot王子2012-11-28 13:01
有些國家不偷不搶就活不下去

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