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» 日本歷史: 選擇性記憶Japanese history Selective memory作者:chen_lt 發(fā)布日期:2012-11-23 瀏覽:3960譯文簡(jiǎn)介:經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)人：對(duì)日本過(guò)往歷史的敘事方式所進(jìn)行的及時(shí)深思。譯文來(lái)源:原文地址：原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) www.ltaaa.com 翻譯：chen_lt 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處正文翻譯:Japanese historySelective memoryA timely meditation on shaping narratives of the past日本歷史：選擇性記憶對(duì)過(guò)往歷史的敘事方式所進(jìn)行的及時(shí)深思AS THE ghosts of the Pacific war judder back to life in Asia, it seems appropriate to consider how nation states remember, and misremember, the past. Japan’s current tiffs with its neighbours, China and South Korea, are rooted in the march to war and its undigested aftermath, more than 75 years ago. They are inflamed, however, by different narratives of history, and by national media coverage that is often parochial and amnesiac.由于太平洋戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的鬼魂們又開(kāi)始在亞洲復(fù)活，所以現(xiàn)在似乎是時(shí)候來(lái)看看那些國(guó)家是如何記住或者記錯(cuò)過(guò)往歷史的。日本目前和其周?chē)�的鄰�?中國(guó)和韓國(guó))的爭(zhēng)端可以追溯到75年前的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)以及戰(zhàn)后日本的態(tài)度上來(lái)�？墒�，他們的關(guān)系也因?yàn)閷?duì)歷史的不同解釋而變得更加的火上澆油，當(dāng)然國(guó)家媒體狹隘和片面的報(bào)道也導(dǎo)致了關(guān)系的更加緊張。Conflict and memory are the themes that animate this new collection of essays by John Dower, author of the Pulitzer prize-winning “Embracing Defeat” (1999), which looked at Japan after the second world war. Mr Dower is particularly interested in Japan’s sanitisation of its military past, but also the way history in general is often a tool used by the powerful.爭(zhēng)端和記憶是推動(dòng)約翰 道爾新書(shū)的兩個(gè)主題，他也是獲得普利策獎(jiǎng)的《擁抱失敗》(1999)一書(shū)的作者，這本獲獎(jiǎng)作品主要關(guān)注的是戰(zhàn)后日本的情況。道爾先生尤其感興趣的是日本對(duì)其過(guò)去軍國(guó)主義歷史的否認(rèn)，同時(shí)他還對(duì)那些有權(quán)有勢(shì)的人如何利用歷史感興趣。Mr Dower discusses his surprise at hearing his own work cited after 9/11, when American officials evoked the post-war occupation of Japan as a model for post-invasion Iraq. President George W. Bush should have seen that Japan provided “no model” for occupying Mesopotamia, Mr Dower wrote in a strikingly prescient 2002 New York Times op-ed, reproduced here. “To rush to war without seriously imagining all its consequences, including its aftermath, is not realism but a terrible hubris.”道爾先生在書(shū)中談?wù)摿俗约旱捏@訝，因?yàn)樗��?tīng)說(shuō)了自己的作品盡然在911事件后被引用了，當(dāng)時(shí)美國(guó)的官員都希望把戰(zhàn)后占領(lǐng)日本的模式應(yīng)用到被占領(lǐng)后的伊拉克。布什總統(tǒng)應(yīng)該看到日本根本沒(méi)有提供一個(gè)“模式”來(lái)讓美國(guó)占領(lǐng)美索不達(dá)米亞，道爾先生在2002年的紐約時(shí)報(bào)專(zhuān)欄上富有預(yù)見(jiàn)性的寫(xiě)道，我們把這句話重現(xiàn)一下。“在沒(méi)有仔細(xì)考慮后果的情況下就發(fā)動(dòng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，這并不是一種現(xiàn)實(shí)主義的行為，而是一種可怕的狂妄自大�！盚e returns to the terrain of “Embracing Defeat”, marvelling at how the vicious racial hatreds of the Pacific war dissipated so quickly, as though “turned off like a spigot”. The lesson for Mr Dower is not only that reluctant civilians must be mobilised by propaganda to fight and die, but also that new realities force new biases.他轉(zhuǎn)而回到了《擁抱失敗》這本書(shū)上來(lái)，他感到異常的驚奇：太平洋戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)所引發(fā)的種族仇恨是如何在頃刻之間煙消云散的，好像“水龍頭突然被關(guān)掉”似的。道爾先生得到的答案是，不僅僅是這些心不甘情不愿的普通民眾會(huì)被國(guó)家的宣傳機(jī)器動(dòng)員去戰(zhàn)斗并且犧牲自己的生命，而且新的現(xiàn)實(shí)還會(huì)催生出新的偏見(jiàn)。No side, he argues, launched a more sophisticated propaganda blitz than the Japanese, who saw their “mongrel” enemies as biologically inferior. But they were hardly alone. During the war Americans viewed their Asian rivals as “monkeys” or “rats”, but with the start of the occupation, Japan became an ally. The popular racism in the American media more or less stopped, and stayed buried until the 1970s, when Japan emerged as an economic superpower. This resurrected Japanese stereotypes of “predatory economic animals” in Western suits who were launching a new “financial Pearl Harbor”. The spigot of racial hatred had been turned back on.他爭(zhēng)辯說(shuō)，沒(méi)有國(guó)家可以像日本人那樣快速的發(fā)起如此老道的宣傳閃電戰(zhàn)，日本人把其“雜種”敵人當(dāng)作是低等級(jí)的生物。但是日本人從來(lái)就不孤單。在二戰(zhàn)期間，美國(guó)人把它的亞洲對(duì)手看作是“猴子”或者是“老鼠”，但是一旦美國(guó)開(kāi)始占領(lǐng)日本后，日本又成了美國(guó)的盟友。美國(guó)媒體中的種族主義言論也開(kāi)始漸漸變少，并且?guī)缀醵间N(xiāo)聲匿跡了，但是到70年代的時(shí)候，情況又變了，因?yàn)楫?dāng)時(shí)日本成為了一個(gè)超級(jí)經(jīng)濟(jì)強(qiáng)國(guó)。這又再次使得日本人在西方人的眼里成了“掠奪性的經(jīng)濟(jì)怪物”，因?yàn)槿毡井?dāng)時(shí)正在建立起新的“經(jīng)融珍珠港”。所以種族仇恨的水龍頭又再一次的被打開(kāi)。When the fighting is finished, history is written, inevitably by those in power, observes Mr Dower. The standard American view of the struggle against Japan is that it was just and moral. But this grants little space for the ghastly side of victory, which included the airborne destruction of 66 cities and the incineration of more than half a million civilians. China and Korea’s political elites have found it endlessly useful to bang the nationalist drum to unite potentially fractious populations against their old enemy. Japanese conservatives have made it easy for them, whitewashing the past and attempting to pass off Imperial Japan’s rampage across Asia as a “holy war” against Western colonialism.一場(chǎng)戰(zhàn)斗結(jié)束后，就成為了一段歷史，當(dāng)然這段歷史是由成功者來(lái)抒寫(xiě)的，道爾先生如此觀察道。在美國(guó)人的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)觀點(diǎn)里，他們認(rèn)為對(duì)日本的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)是正義和道德的。但是這種觀點(diǎn)沒(méi)有給戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)失敗的一方留下任何的反駁的機(jī)會(huì)，包括因空襲而造成的日本66座城市的損壞以及50多萬(wàn)民眾被活活燒死的事實(shí)。中國(guó)和韓國(guó)的政治精英都發(fā)現(xiàn)了一個(gè)永遠(yuǎn)都不過(guò)時(shí)的方法，只要他們打的是民族主義的口號(hào)，那些易怒的民眾就會(huì)被很容易的利用來(lái)對(duì)付它們的老敵人。而日本的保守派人士的做法更是讓中韓的政治領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人們有機(jī)可乘，因?yàn)檫@些保守派日本人否認(rèn)過(guò)去的歷史而且還試圖把日本侵略亞洲的暴行說(shuō)成是為了反抗西方殖民主義而發(fā)動(dòng)的“圣戰(zhàn)”。Selective memory is often a harmful feature of children’s education. Japanese high-school textbooks devote impressively little space to the war, reflecting official attempts to “downplay the dark aspects of Japan’s modern history,” writes Mr Dower. For its part, China’s government relies on its struggle against Japanese aggression for its historical legitimacy, so memories of wartime atrocities are kept fresh in schools. This helps to explain the strikingly different public reactions to the current island disputes. While the Chinese angrily take to the streets, the Japanese stay at home and watch it on TV.選擇性的記憶對(duì)兒童教育來(lái)說(shuō)是有害的。日本的中學(xué)教科書(shū)里面很少提到有關(guān)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的事情，這反映了日本官員試圖“忽視日本當(dāng)代歷史中黑暗的一面，”道爾先生如此寫(xiě)道。而從中國(guó)的角度來(lái)說(shuō)，日本越是否認(rèn)歷史，中國(guó)政府越是高興，因?yàn)橹挥腥绱�，中�?guó)的學(xué)校里的學(xué)生們才會(huì)被一再的灌輸日本曾經(jīng)侵略中國(guó)的罪行。通過(guò)這一點(diǎn)我們就很容易明白為什么最近的島嶼爭(zhēng)端兩國(guó)人民的反應(yīng)是如此的不同，當(dāng)中國(guó)人上街進(jìn)行憤怒的抗議時(shí)，日本卻呆在家里通過(guò)看電視來(lái)了解情況。For a solution, Mr Dower looks to the 20th-century views of E.H. Norman, a Japan expert and Marxist historian. Like Norman, he feels that most countries need a “revolution from below” against any system that “represses freedom, sacrifices life, and retards the creation of true self-government”. All citizens should be able to challenge the narratives held by elites. At a tense time of toxic nationalism in Asia, this book is a timely reminder of the uses and abuses of history.為了獲得解決方案，道爾先生把目光轉(zhuǎn)向了諾曼在20世紀(jì)所提出的觀點(diǎn)，他是一名日本學(xué)者和馬克思主義歷史學(xué)家。像諾曼一樣，道爾先生覺(jué)得世界上的大多數(shù)國(guó)家都需要一個(gè)“自下而上的革命”來(lái)推翻“抑制自由，犧牲生命和阻礙自我管理”的系統(tǒng)。每個(gè)公民都應(yīng)該能夠挑戰(zhàn)政治精英們提出的歷史敘事觀點(diǎn)。當(dāng)亞洲的具有破壞性的民族主義之風(fēng)盛行之時(shí)，道爾先生的這本書(shū)不失為一個(gè)及時(shí)的提醒，一個(gè)利用和濫用歷史的提醒。評(píng)論翻譯:原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) www.ltaaa.com 翻譯：chen_lt 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處本帖論壇地址：bampbsAug 23rd, 19:43The Japanese have scarcely behaved in a way to make the Chinese, or, for that matter, anyone else, believe that they genuinely regret their international aggressions prior to their defeat in 1945.They do, however, regret the defeat; and they feel terribly sorry for themselves because the Americans saved millions of Japanese lives by using atomic weapons to end the war quickly.日本人的行為一直以來(lái)都沒(méi)辦法讓中國(guó)人或者任何其他國(guó)家的人相信日本真正的在為其1945年之前的侵略行為感到懺悔。但是，日本確實(shí)是為他們的戰(zhàn)敗感到后悔的；并且他們還對(duì)自己感到異常的惋惜，因?yàn)槊绹?guó)通過(guò)核炸彈來(lái)快速的結(jié)束戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)從而挽救了數(shù)百萬(wàn)日本人的生命。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin回復(fù) cshimaAug 24th, 20:25I am comfortable to believe that Germany of today is not the same as Germany 70 years ago but cannot say the same thing about Japan. Just look at how differently Germany and Japan treat World War II.我相信今日的德國(guó)已經(jīng)不是70年前的的德國(guó)了，但是日本那就不一樣了。只要看看德國(guó)和日本在對(duì)待二戰(zhàn)的態(tài)度上有何不同你就知道了。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin 回復(fù) Mike Tyson IronmanAug 24th, 14:39Why were Japanese soldiers anywhere near Marco Polo Bridge, and, for that matter, anywhere on Chinese soil? They had started the to invade China and occupied vast areas of China aoil as early as 1931.What you say about the Chinese and Koreans parallels Holocaust denial, and, if your view is shared by more than a small fraction of Japanese, it means that Japan, unlike Germany, has perverted the horrible lessons of WWII.為什么日本兵在盧溝橋附近到處出現(xiàn)以及在中國(guó)的其他地方大量出現(xiàn)？日本人最早在1931年時(shí)候，就已經(jīng)開(kāi)始對(duì)中國(guó)發(fā)動(dòng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)了，而且還占領(lǐng)了中國(guó)的大片領(lǐng)土。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin 回復(fù) TohakuAug 24th, 14:42The Japanese could have surrendered and stopped their aggression in the rest of East Asia while their homeland was being bombed. What were the allies supposed to do? Stand by and let Japan continue? Invade Japan before softening it up and sacrifice allied soldiers unnecessarily? Loss of life is to be regretted but at a time like that it had to be done to save lives. The lessons here is not to start wars of aggression in the first place.當(dāng)日本本土被空襲時(shí)，日本人本就已經(jīng)可以投降并且停止侵略東亞其他的地區(qū)了。同盟國(guó)應(yīng)該怎么做？袖手旁觀繼續(xù)讓日本為所欲為？在日本軟化之前，為了不犧牲同盟國(guó)戰(zhàn)士而襲擊日本難道不是應(yīng)該做的事情嗎？生命的逝去是一件令人遺憾的事情，但是在當(dāng)時(shí)的那種情況下，只有這么做才能拯救更多的生命。所以我們能夠從中得到的教訓(xùn)是，首先就不應(yīng)該發(fā)動(dòng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin 回復(fù)kalitataAug 24th, 20:17The Japanese government never did apologize for the atrocities.日本政府從來(lái)就沒(méi)有為其戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪行道過(guò)謙。ReportPermalinkDeskHopperin 回復(fù) Mike Tyson IronmanAug 24th, 04:43Oh please. It might or might not be the Chinese who fired first, but it was the Japanese that later assaulted Beijing.If it weren't for that, the whole Marco Polo bridge incident would be nothing more than a minor skirmish.What do you have against the Chinese and the Koreans anyway?哦 得了吧�；蛟S是中國(guó)人最先開(kāi)火的，但也有可能不是，但是后來(lái)的確是日本人侵占了北京。如果日本不侵占北京的話，盧溝橋事件最多只能算是一次小規(guī)模的沖突。ReportPermalinkA. AndrosAug 24th, 17:41"He returns to the terrain of “Embracing Defeat”, marvelling at how the vicious racial hatreds of the Pacific war dissipated so quickly, as though “turned off like a spigot”. '“他回到了《擁抱失敗》這本書(shū)上來(lái)，他感到異常的驚奇：為什么太平洋戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)所引發(fā)的種族仇恨是如何在頃刻之間煙消云散的，好像“水龍頭突然被關(guān)掉”似的�！盧eportPermalinkA. AndrosAug 24th, 17:41"He returns to the terrain of “Embracing Defeat”, marvelling at how the vicious racial hatreds of the Pacific war dissipated so quickly, as though “turned off like a spigot”. 'Dowling's "War Without Mercy" is the least convincing of his excellent books and the above statement badly undercuts his thesis of an essentially racist WW2 in the Pacific. During the war American propaganda was indeed racist . . . toward all its enemies. (View the wartime classic "Der Fuerher"s Face" for an equally contemptuous portrayal of Germans and Italians.) German and Russian propaganda was also intensely racist toward each other's nationality, especially the ultra-racist Nazis. However, Ilya Erhenburg was virulently racist toward the Germans.The reason that the racism Dowling so excoriates was "turned off" so quickly after VJ Day is because is was never as deep as he portrays. It was a wartime hyping of casual peacetime civilian prejudices and when the Four Years of Hate were over it simply collapsed to its normal, puny size.But, Dowling's sensitive exploration of WW2 in the Pacific as primarily a "racist" war can tempt us to an attitude of "A plague on both your houses" toward the combatants. This would be a misreading of history.The Japanese were aggressors throughout the Pacific Basin from the late Meiji Restoration until the end of WW2. The Sino-Japanese War (1894), the Russo-Japanese War (1904-5), the invasions and conquest of Taiwan and Korea, the carving out of "Manchuko" from China in 1931, the attempt to conquer China anew that began in 1937, the attempted aggression against Russia in 1938 and, finally, the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, demonstrate a record of ceaseless aggression over a half-century that is virtually unmatched, even by Germany, in modern history. Although reasonably civilized in their war against Russia in 1904-5, subsequent Japanese aggression was carried out with an atavistic savagery divorced from military necessity that was truly depraved.The American bombing of Japanese cities was immoral. But, to quote Bomber Harris, "Cite an act of war that IS moral." Japan had to be defeated if the Pacific Basin was to have any future as a relatively peaceful and prosperous part of the globe, other than as a victim of Japanese imperialism. In China, alone, reasonable historians with no axe to grind estimate that right up until VJ Day something in the order of 100,000 Chinese civilians died each month under Japanese brutality. The only way to avoid wartime atrocity is to avoid war. And, one way to avoid war is to not attack one's neighbors.As the war begins to fade from living memory we can detect a sort of "On the one hand, on the other hand" attitude emerge in textbooks and monographs. The press the Nazis have gotten in the past makes their white-washing a bit more difficult than that of the Japanese but this, too, will emerge.At the same time, the war is over and those Japanese who perpetrated it are long dead and it is unjust to hold contemporary Japan responsible for what it did in the first half of the last century. There simply is nothing positive to be gained by waving the bloody shirt, other than to stir up domestic political advantage. (But, Japanese denial of their culpability produces no sweet smell either. ) The Japanese have been asked to apologize too many times already -- this need not go on forever. Let the dead bury the dead.But, let us not further this necessary process of reconciliation by obscuring the horror that Japan inflicted throughout the Pacific for fifty years, beginning in the 1890s. What happened then is no part of Japanese life today. But, it is part of Japan's past.“他回到了《擁抱失敗》這本書(shū)上來(lái)，他感到異常的驚奇：為什么太平洋戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)所引發(fā)的種族仇恨是如何在頃刻之間煙消云散的，好像“水龍頭突然被關(guān)掉”似的�！钡懒值摹稕](méi)有憐憫的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)》是他寫(xiě)過(guò)的所有書(shū)里最沒(méi)有說(shuō)服力的，而上面的這句話則嚴(yán)重的削弱了道林的理論：從本質(zhì)上來(lái)說(shuō)，發(fā)生在太平洋的二戰(zhàn)是一場(chǎng)種族主義的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。在戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)期間，美國(guó)的宣傳機(jī)器的確是對(duì)所有的美國(guó)敵人都采用了種族主義的宣傳策略。(參考一下戰(zhàn)時(shí)的經(jīng)典《Der Fuerher"s Face》一書(shū)，這本書(shū)對(duì)德國(guó)和意大利采取了輕蔑的態(tài)度)德國(guó)和俄羅斯對(duì)各自國(guó)民的政治宣傳也是采用了種族主義的策略，特別是納粹德國(guó)的種族主義者�？墒牵�伊利亞·愛(ài)倫堡(蘇聯(lián)的作家，記者，翻譯家，文化名人，同時(shí)也是臭名昭著的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪犯)卻是傾向于德國(guó)的惡毒種族主義者。道林嚴(yán)厲批評(píng)種族主義的原因是在二戰(zhàn)勝利后人們好像很快就忘記了仇恨，而這是道林沒(méi)有想到的，因?yàn)樗�之前覺(jué)得人們的仇恨應(yīng)該會(huì)很深才對(duì)。所以這是在利用和平時(shí)期人們的偏見(jiàn)來(lái)進(jìn)行戰(zhàn)時(shí)的宣傳，而當(dāng)四年的仇恨過(guò)去以后，所有的仇恨都恢復(fù)了平靜。但是，道林對(duì)發(fā)生在太平洋地區(qū)的二戰(zhàn)戰(zhàn)事進(jìn)行了敏感的探索，他把太平洋地區(qū)的戰(zhàn)事稱(chēng)為“種族主義”戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，而這可以讓我們引發(fā)我們對(duì)那些戰(zhàn)斗的戰(zhàn)士產(chǎn)生這些一個(gè)態(tài)度：戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)對(duì)每個(gè)士兵來(lái)說(shuō)都是一個(gè)災(zāi)難，因?yàn)樗麄兏髯缘募覉@都在戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)被毀掉了。而這可能會(huì)讓我們對(duì)歷史產(chǎn)生誤解。日本從明治維新到二戰(zhàn)結(jié)束期間，在太平洋地區(qū)一直都扮演著侵略者的角色。1894年的中日戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，1904-5年的中俄戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，對(duì)臺(tái)灣和韓國(guó)的侵略和征服，1931年分裂滿洲國(guó)，并試圖在1937年重新侵略中國(guó)，在1938年試圖侵略俄羅斯，以及最后在1941年襲擊珍珠港，所以這半個(gè)世紀(jì)的侵略行為都表明了在當(dāng)代歷史上日本的侵略行為是無(wú)與倫比的，即使是德國(guó)也沒(méi)辦法和日本相比。雖然在對(duì)俄羅斯的1904-5的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中日本人沒(méi)有采取太多的暴行，但是在接下來(lái)的日本侵略行為中都表現(xiàn)出了隔代遺傳的野蠻性，這種野蠻性實(shí)際上已經(jīng)脫離了軍事上的需要，所以是相當(dāng)卑鄙的。美國(guó)人對(duì)日本的城市進(jìn)行轟炸是不道德的。但是曾經(jīng)的襲擊日本的哈里斯卻說(shuō)襲擊日本是一種道德的行為。如果太平洋地區(qū)想要在未來(lái)?yè)碛幸粋�(gè)和平的環(huán)境而不是成為日本軍國(guó)主義的犧牲品的話，那么日本一定要被打敗。單單在中國(guó)，一些公道的歷史學(xué)家估計(jì)，直到日本投降為止，每個(gè)月都有10萬(wàn)人在日本的鐵蹄下死亡。阻止戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)暴行的唯一方法是阻止戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的發(fā)生。而防止戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)發(fā)生的方法就是不要對(duì)鄰國(guó)發(fā)動(dòng)襲擊。隨著戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)在人們的記憶中不斷的消逝，我們可以在可以在一些教科書(shū)或者文章里面發(fā)現(xiàn)“一方面，另一方面”這樣的態(tài)度出現(xiàn)。即使德國(guó)政府想要抹除過(guò)去不光榮的歷史，德國(guó)媒體界也是不會(huì)同意的，起碼沒(méi)有日本那么容易，但是或許在將來(lái)，德國(guó)也可以變得很容易。同時(shí)，戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)已經(jīng)結(jié)束了，而那些發(fā)動(dòng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的日本戰(zhàn)犯也已經(jīng)死了，所以雖然日本在半個(gè)世紀(jì)之前犯下了錯(cuò)誤，但是現(xiàn)在的日本并沒(méi)有錯(cuò)，所以現(xiàn)在的政府并沒(méi)有責(zé)任，否則就是對(duì)日本的不公平。一味的煽動(dòng)仇恨情緒并不能帶來(lái)什么成果，這樣做只會(huì)使那些國(guó)內(nèi)的政治家獲益罷了。(但是日本否認(rèn)過(guò)去的罪行也不會(huì)產(chǎn)生什么好結(jié)果。)日本被多次的要求進(jìn)行道歉——不能再這么繼續(xù)下去了。過(guò)去的就讓它過(guò)去吧。日本進(jìn)行了半個(gè)世紀(jì)的侵略歷史(從19世紀(jì)90年代開(kāi)始)，在這過(guò)程中，日本給亞洲人民造成了巨大身心上的傷害，所以我們也不必要為了和解而忘記日本的所作所為。日本雖然在過(guò)去犯下了侵略事實(shí)，但是和今天的日本一點(diǎn)關(guān)系也沒(méi)有。但是，那是日本歷史的一部分。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin回復(fù) TohakuAug 24th, 20:29Well, who knows, maybe American couldn't beat Japan without atomic bombs either. In that case, it was a good thing they did use them. It would surely be the lessor of two evils.好吧，誰(shuí)知道呢，如果美國(guó)不使用原子彈的話，或許也無(wú)法打敗日本。所以從這個(gè)角度來(lái)看的話，美國(guó)人使用原子彈是正確的做法。ReportPermalinkBernard TownsendAug 30th, 18:53Fact is fact. Nobody can deny it. You can have different viewpoints, but need to have some very basic human conscience.The way that "Mike Tyson Ironman" whitewashes Japanese war crimes is shamelessly naked and extreme. This goes way beyond disliking the Chinese government. You put all Chinese and Koreans in a category so you can target your hatred. What's your agenda, after all??Denying Nzai Germany's war crimes is itself a criminal act in Germany. The equivalent, however, is conveniently known as "freedom of speech" in Japan, embraced by Shintaro Ishihara and alike.If the German government denies Holocaust systematically, regularly organized memorial masses for Adolf Hitler and other war criminals, nobody in Europe or Israel would just sit and watch doing nothing. But if the Japanese government and politicians do so, it's acceptable and correct to do?Numerous Chinese governments did cause damage to its own people. That's a separate matter. But that does not justify Japanese war crimes. A Jew cheating another Jew does not justify Holocaust.If Chinese government was democratically elected, China defended itself like Israel does, and there will be more peace in Asia, and more basic human conscience among the Japanese and some of their proxies like "Mike Tyson Ironman".事實(shí)就是事實(shí)。沒(méi)有人可以否認(rèn)。你可以擁有不同的觀點(diǎn)，但是還是需要具備基本的人類(lèi)良心的。“Mike Tyson Ironman”式的試圖對(duì)日本戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪行進(jìn)行掩飾的行為是毫無(wú)羞恥，赤裸裸和極端的。日本政府這么做并不僅僅討厭中國(guó)政府那么簡(jiǎn)單了。你把所有的中國(guó)人和韓國(guó)人都?xì)w類(lèi)在一起，這樣子你才能把你的仇恨都釋放出來(lái)。所以你的目的到底是什么呢？？在德國(guó)，對(duì)納粹德國(guó)所犯下的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪行進(jìn)行否認(rèn)本身就是一種犯罪行為。而在日本，人們會(huì)認(rèn)為這是一種“言論自由”的表現(xiàn)，石原慎太郎以及類(lèi)似的一些人都這么認(rèn)為。如果德國(guó)政府也有組織的對(duì)其過(guò)去的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪行進(jìn)行否認(rèn)，并且還經(jīng)常組織民眾去參拜希特勒和其他的戰(zhàn)犯的話，那么歐洲人和以色列人肯定不會(huì)袖手旁觀的。但是如果日本的政治家和日本政府這么做的話就是可以接受的和正確的嗎？中國(guó)政府的確做了一些對(duì)不起其人民的事情，但是那是兩回事。但那并不能使日本的罪行合理化。正如一個(gè)猶太人欺騙另外一個(gè)猶太人并不能使納粹的暴行合理化一樣。如果中國(guó)政府是通過(guò)民主選舉出來(lái)的話，如果中國(guó)也像以色列那樣為自己爭(zhēng)取權(quán)益的話，那么亞洲將會(huì)更加的和平，并且也會(huì)喚起日本人以及其代理人比如“Mike Tyson Ironman”更多的人類(lèi)基本道德良心。ReportPermalinkashbirdin 回復(fù) Mike Tyson IronmanAug 24th, 18:27Mike Tyson,"Legitimate rape" all over again?You want to do it "harder" this time to make it more "legitimate"?Mike Tyson，再一次的“合法性強(qiáng)奸”？你這次想做得“更絕一點(diǎn)”來(lái)讓它變得更加的具有“合法性”？ReportPermalinkewakornAug 28th, 03:32Japan cannot face squarely the past because it is not a normal country.Under the unilateral decision of super Shogun General MacArthur, Emperor Hirohito was acquitted of all charges of war crime even though there were strong evidence to show that he had a strong role in the planning of major strategic battles.Moreover, the start of Korean War had rehabilitated a whole segment of war criminals to be in charge of government and major industry.So with a whole bunch of war criminals and their descendants in charge, how could they face squarely the past?If Japan had gone through joint Allied Occupation like Germany was, then there is no way Japan could whitewash its history like how it does today.If Japan has really got rid of ultra-nationalism, then how come a right wing politician like Shintaro Ishihara, who denied that Nanking Massacre had ever happened, could be voted into office as the governor of Tokyo?What if anyone denies that Holocaust ever happened in Europe?He would be convicted and sentenced to jail (so much for the Freedom of Speech) if he were in UK, France, Austria,.... and Germany.Ishihara is lucky that China and South Korea are not strong enough to behave like what the European countries do.日本不能誠(chéng)實(shí)的面對(duì)過(guò)去，因?yàn)槿毡静皇且粋�(gè)正常的國(guó)家。在超級(jí)幕府首領(lǐng)麥克阿瑟將軍的片面決定下，日本裕仁天皇沒(méi)有受到任何的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)起訴，雖然有明顯的證據(jù)表明裕仁天皇在一些主要的戰(zhàn)略性戰(zhàn)役中都扮演著關(guān)鍵的角色�？墒�，朝鮮戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)使大量的日本戰(zhàn)犯重新獲得資格來(lái)控制日本政府和主要的工業(yè)部門(mén)所以在這些戰(zhàn)犯和其后代掌權(quán)的情況下，日本怎么能夠誠(chéng)實(shí)的面對(duì)過(guò)去的歷史呢？如果日本也像德國(guó)那樣被盟軍聯(lián)合的占領(lǐng)，那么日本今天就不可能對(duì)其歷史進(jìn)行粉刷了。如果日本政府真的擺脫了極端的民族主義者，那么像石原慎太郎這樣否認(rèn)南京暴行的右翼政治家怎么會(huì)被當(dāng)選上東京市長(zhǎng)呢？如果有人否認(rèn)在歐洲發(fā)生的大屠殺的話那結(jié)果又將會(huì)怎樣？如果在英國(guó)，法國(guó)和奧地利，，，，和德國(guó)，那他肯定會(huì)被起訴然后被送進(jìn)監(jiān)獄的(言論自由也就到此為止了)石原慎太郎應(yīng)該感到慶幸，因?yàn)橹袊?guó)和韓國(guó)不夠強(qiáng)大，所以沒(méi)辦法做歐洲國(guó)家做的事情。ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin回復(fù) A. AndrosAug 24th, 20:33"The Japanese have been asked to apologize too many times already -- this need not go on forever." Totally agree, EXCEPT that Japan never did apologize. If they had behavied in a way similar to the Germans the Japanese would have been asked repeatedly to apologize.“日本被多次的要求進(jìn)行道歉——不能再這樣繼續(xù)下去了�！蔽彝耆�同意，除非日本從未道過(guò)謙。如果日本人也像德國(guó)人那樣的話，那么日本人會(huì)被一再的要求去道歉的ReportPermalinkHeadlessly Running Aroundin 回復(fù) A. AndrosAug 24th, 22:44Erratum for my post: Don't get me wrong - I peraonally have many Japanese friends and find them great individuals to get along with, but if we teach the world and our children naked lies, we are not responsible to even ourselves. It goes against our own self interest! Don't you want to sleep better?一些基本的事實(shí)：不要誤會(huì)我——我本人擁有很多的日本朋友，并且發(fā)現(xiàn)他們都是很好的人，但是如果我們對(duì)世界以及我們的孩子說(shuō)的都是赤裸裸的謊言，那對(duì)我們自己來(lái)說(shuō)都是一種不負(fù)責(zé)任的行為。這種做法是和我們自己的利益相沖突的！難道你不想睡得更加安穩(wěn)一點(diǎn)嗎？ReportPermalinklaw-and-orderin 回復(fù)Marquis de SadAug 28th, 01:28Japanese lost their rights to treat their savageness in a cursory fashion when they behaved likes savages. If they had any intellectual honesty, they should be really embarrassed.日本人沒(méi)有權(quán)利以草率的方式來(lái)處理自己的野蠻行為，因?yàn)樗麄冞^(guò)去的確像野蠻人一樣。如果他們?cè)谛闹巧险娴氖钦\(chéng)實(shí)的話，那么他們應(yīng)該感到尷尬才對(duì)。ReportPermalinkgdpbullAug 28th, 00:26I don't think any country is totally immune to white-washing their history. Perhaps Japan is more egregious than most.Even American does it. Any serious historian does not deny that the Roosevelt administration did their best to maneuver Japan into making the first strike in WWII. Secretary of War Stimpson wrote in his dairy about discussions with Roosevelt "how we should maneuver them 日本能在7天內(nèi)把中國(guó)和韓國(guó)夷為平地除了這點(diǎn)還是比較OK的……總的來(lái)說(shuō)在國(guó)際中，日本掩飾侵略歷史這一事件還是比較被國(guó)際社會(huì)所認(rèn)同的什么時(shí)候日本停止供奉戰(zhàn)犯，什么時(shí)候再談道歉的問(wèn)題。一邊供奉戰(zhàn)犯一邊說(shuō)對(duì)不起，你拿中國(guó)人當(dāng)sb？ 日本人不肯正確認(rèn)識(shí)歷史，這不是歐也。我不管日本人怎么看待歷史，但他們都必須死，因?yàn)樗麄兪堑土拥娜毡救耍�這是歐也。 日本人不肯正確認(rèn)識(shí)歷史，這不是歐也。我不管日本人怎么看待歷史，但他們都必須死，因?yàn)樗麄兪堑土拥娜毡救耍�這是歐也。即使以目前的軍事水平來(lái)看，日本能夠在7天的時(shí)間里把中國(guó)和韓國(guó)夷為平地。嚇出翔了。太君這邊走日語(yǔ)怎么說(shuō)？ 果然來(lái)了精神日本人轉(zhuǎn)進(jìn) 某種意義上，天朝也是。說(shuō)起袁世凱，只想到他稱(chēng)帝，復(fù)辟。有多少人知道他朝鮮練兵？ 某種意義上，天朝也是。說(shuō)起袁世凱，只想到他稱(chēng)帝，復(fù)辟。有多少人知道他朝鮮練兵？現(xiàn)在的80后還有多少人知道大躍進(jìn)？三年自然災(zāi)害？廬山會(huì)議？四人幫是哪四人估計(jì)都說(shuō)不出來(lái)。 某種意義上，天朝也是。說(shuō)起袁世凱，只想到他稱(chēng)帝，復(fù)辟。有多少人知道他朝鮮練兵？現(xiàn)在的80后還有多少人知道大躍進(jìn)？三年自然災(zāi)害？廬山會(huì)議？四人幫是哪四人估計(jì)都說(shuō)不出來(lái)。 某種意義上，天朝也是。說(shuō)起袁世凱，只想到他稱(chēng)帝，復(fù)辟。有多少人知道他朝鮮練兵？現(xiàn)在的80后還有多少人知道大躍進(jìn)？三年自然災(zāi)害？廬山會(huì)議？四人幫是哪四人估計(jì)都說(shuō).......