網易TED演講合集
Phil Klein 500+ +5ReplyTED ATTENDEETEDX ORGANIZERJan 24 2011: This talk presents a fundamentally crucial conversation that we in the West need to have. The failure to realistically, openly explore, accept, understand and relate effectively to significantly different cultures/civilizations, especially China, is utterly unwise and unnecessary. Here's to taking seriously the project of knowing and seeing beyond western eyes, fixed conceptions, and the overconfidence that we already understand China and the world beyond our local borders.
這樣的討論提出了一種從根本上至關重要的談話,而這是在西方的我們需要的�，F(xiàn)實的失敗讓我們需要公開地探索、接受、并有效地對顯著不同的文明理解,尤其是中國,而原先這種理解是完全不明智和不必要的。我們來認真對待這個項目的了解和看到超越西方的視角、固定的概念、過度自信,我們已經了解中國和邊界以外世界的地方。
Jim Price 20+Jan 24 2011: I read about China every week in magazine articles, but the focus is usually on Chinese economic or diplomatic actions as they relate to U.S. or European interests. This talk gave me more cultural context than a year's worth of articles. Mr. Jacques's book just shot to the top of my "must read" list. Classic TED!
我讀到關于中國每周在雜志上的文章,但重點通常是對中國經濟和外交行動，因為它們都與美國或歐洲的利益有關。這個報告給我相當于一年分量的文章有關于這些文化語境的問題 。雅克先生的書真是射殺我的之前的“必讀書目”列表。經典的TED!
Tobias Duncan I am with you Jim,I am fascinated by China, I feel I know way more about China than the average American.One eloquent talk and I realize I know nothing about China .
我贊同你，吉姆。我對中國著迷,我覺得我比一般的美國人更了解中國。但這個動人的演講,讓我意識到我對中國一無所知。
Jeff Cook
Jan 24 2011: This talk was very interesting. I once worked with an older man who majored his degree in Chinese history. Most people don't realize the Chinese were the first sailors in the world who actually taught the Europeans to sail. If you understand that in China everything is cyclical. Look at the Chinese calendar, is a circle. Their philosophy is much the same. They may not be number one militarily or economically speaking NOW but they know everything comes in time and will be number one soon (as Mr. Jacques illustrates for us). I think he did a great job raising awareness about the fact that we in the West are ignorant of other world cultures and we better get used to the idea soon. For better or worse soon America won't be the biggest kid on the block.
這是非常有趣的談話。我和一個較為年長曾在中國攻讀歷史專業(yè)學位的的男子共事。大多數(shù)人沒有意識到中國人是世界上第一個水手，實際上教會了歐洲航行(是指指南針嗎)。你應該明白,在中國任何事情都是周期性的�？纯粗袊諝v,是一個圓形。他們的哲學也同樣如此。他們也許不是頭號軍事或經濟強國,但是現(xiàn)在他們知道一切事情都是水到渠成，以及很快將成為世界第一。(就像雅克給我舉的例子一樣)我認為他做的很不錯，讓我們提高意識到這一事實——我們西方人忽略其他世界文化以及我們迅速的接受了這個想法。或好或壞很快美國將不會是世上最大的國家。(大概是指經濟)
Ivan Feri嬁10+
Jan 25 2011: They may have been the first sailors (I don't know), but to say that they taught Europeans how to sail is misleading. They have maybe improved it, but not taught it since the Europeans were sailing way before they met any Chinese people.
他們可能是第一個水手(我不知道),但是說他們教歐洲人如何航行是誤導性的。他們有可能改善,但不是教它由于歐洲人正在航行之前,他們沒有遇到了任何中國人。
Devron Harper
Jun 15 2012: The innovative culture that is mentioned in this talk, whatever that was left of it, was destroyed by the Communist Party many times over. It is as if China's history is 4000 years old in some ways yet 60 years old in other ways. If China ever seeks to challenge the USA as a superpower it must become an innovative society, which means that the CCP must give up power to do this. I don't get the impression that this will be a peaceful process. Let's hope that their domestic problems will not turn to external problems if the CCP tries to find an international foe to unite and distract its peoples attention away from their internal difficulties.
The graphs that the speaker uses are misleading because the Chinese economy will slow down (and already is) as it finishes copying all the technology the west has already created for it to upgrade it's buildings and infrastructure. At some point the Chinese must transition into an innovative society to keep their economy going, but I believe that because their culture is so anti -creativity they will go through a period of serious turmoil before they can even think about being equal with the west.
在這次演講中提到了創(chuàng)新文化,那為什么在接下來的歲月里,共XX能摧毀了這一切？就好像在某些方面中國的歷史有4000年的歷史然而在其他方面他只有60歲。如果中國試圖作為一個超級大國挑戰(zhàn)美國,它必須成為一個創(chuàng)新型社會,這意味著CCP必須放棄權力。我不覺得這將是一個和平的過程。如果中國共XX試圖找到一個國際的敵人,團結、分散其人民的注意力從他們的內部的困難，讓我們希望他們的國內問題不會轉向外部問題 。
講話者使用這圖表,會產生誤導。因為中國經濟將減速(已經)因為它已經復制西方所有的技術，已經為其升級它的建筑和基礎設施。在某種程度上來說,中國必須轉變成一個創(chuàng)新的社會保持經濟持續(xù)發(fā)展,但我相信,因為他們的文化是如此的反創(chuàng)造力，他們在可以考慮與西方的平等之前將經歷一段嚴重的動蕩 。
Adam Hoffman 50+
Jan 24 2011: This is an amazing look at a culture that is both fascinating and frightening. Despite being a Westerner, I am not afraid of China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy. I see this as an inevitability, and we will have to learn to adapt to that world. What scares me, however, is what Jacques portrays as this massive, unified wave that overtakes and consumes and assimilates all in its path. ("Resistance is futile!") I worry that, unified in cultural identity as they are, the new world, under China, will not be as tolerant to other cultures and other ideals. 90% of Chinese may self-identify as Han, but certainly 60-70% of the world is not Han. China thus far has not demonstrated a stellar record for civil liberties, to be sure. As much of the world is Westernizing, is the rest Easternizing? Is the new future one where it becomes Us and Them?
是什么造就了這么一個令人驚奇的，看著既迷人而又可怕的文化。盡管是一個西方人,但我不害怕中國超越美國,成為世界上最大的經濟體。我認為這是不可避免的,我們將不得不學會適應這個世界。我怕什么。然而,是雅克·描繪這個龐大的、統(tǒng)一的浪潮中,超越和消耗并且接受所有的路徑上。(“抵抗是徒勞的!”),我擔心,統(tǒng)一的因素在中國文化的分量。新的世界,在中國,不會容忍其他的文化和其他的理想。90%的中國可能會自我認定為漢族,但肯定60 - 70%的世界不是漢族。中國到目前為止并沒有證明履歷輝煌的公民自由,當然。世界上大部分是西化的,其他的正在東方化嗎?是新的未來,使其成為我們和他們嗎?
Rapolas Binkis
Feb 3 2011: Fear is the path to the dark side...
恐懼讓人們進入黑暗的一面
Job van der Zwan I'm half-Dutch, half-Chinese, and the weird thing is that I have the feeling it makes me more uncomfortable with Chinese people than "full-blooded" Western people. I never quite understood why, because I don't have this problem with any other ethnicity (including other Asians).
The other half-Chinese I've met in my life said they also felt this way, so there must be something going on. Maybe it's the fact that Chinese culture is as exotic to me as it is to other Westerners, except in my case that makes me feel like I don't fit in.
我是中荷各占一半血統(tǒng)的混血兒，但是我感覺它使我在接觸中比“純正的”西方的人，面對中國人更不舒服 。我從來不理解為什么,因為我與其他族群(包括其他亞洲人) 沒有這個問題。
我遇到的其他中國混血兒，他們說在他們的生命中也有這樣的感受(覺得中國人特別),所以一定有事情正在發(fā)生。也許是這樣一個事實,即中國文化是對我一樣與眾不同的,因為它是其他西方國家的人,除了我的情況讓我覺得我不適合。
Geng ("Grace") Zhang 10+
Jan 24 2011: Where did you grow up? I think that's easy to understand why we feel uncomfortable with people having a different living experience and cultural background. In China people grew up in north would feel uncomfortable with people grew up in south, to some extent. I think if you grew up in China, and was brought to the West in your 20s, you would have felt a little more uncomfortable with your West side, at least at the beginning.
(回復樓上) 你在哪里長大的?我認為這很容易理解，因為我們感到不舒服的人都有一個不同的生活體驗和文化背景。在中國,北方人會不爽南方人,在某種程度上。我認為如果你在中國長大的,并被帶到西方在20多歲時,你會覺得有點不舒服的與你的西方背景,至少在起步階段。
Job van der Zwan
Jan 25 2011: The Netherlands, mostly, except for the first three years of my life, during which I lived in Ghana. That's irrelevant anyway: I understand your argument, but my point is that I don't have this issue with any other foreign culture, and I've been in contact with a lot during my hitchhiking trips.
Some people I've met asked me if I couldn't be a bridge builder between cultures (and if this doesn't apply to mixed race people in general), but I think that's like mixing two things and expecting that the result will be both things at the same time, while the thing is that you end up with something that's neither.
在荷蘭,主要是,除了我生命的頭三年。在此期間,我住在加納。那是不相干的事情:我明白你的觀點。但我的觀點是,我沒有這個問題，我沒有與其他任何外國文化過多的接觸,即使在我搭便車旅行我接觸過很多外國文化。
我見過一些人問我能不能成為中荷之間的文化橋梁之類的(假如一般來說這并不適用于不同種族的人們),但我覺得這就像混合兩種東西和期望,結果將會是浪費時間和精力。
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 25 2011: "something that's neither" that's interesting. I feel the same way having studied in the U.S. and China. Ironically, I felt myself not that perfect as to represent a Chinese' point of view cause I have absorbed so much from the other culture and I kind of felt myself "something that's neither." and I couldn't decide whether this is good or not. But still, your argument is interesting and I can see where's the idea of being unable to communicate well with your Chinese side come from. I think overall yes, maybe your chinese side just does not understand the outside world as well as you did, and maybe they just don't speak english well so they hesitate to start a conversation. Or maybe that's just because according to traditional chinese families' values, there are kind of rules they expect people to follow but don't know exactly they should impose on you. It really depends on your family.
有些時候兩者皆否也挺有趣的。我在研究了在美國和中國之后，也有同樣的感覺。具有諷刺意味的是,我覺得自己不是完美的,代表了中國的觀點,因為我已經吸收了這么多來自其他文化而我有一種感覺是自己的東西”,兩者皆否�！拔也荒軟Q定這是否良好。
但是,你的論點是有趣的,我能看到無法與你溝通思想的來自你中國那方面。我認為整體是的,也許你的中國一側并不只是對外部世界的了解像你一樣好,也許他們只是不會說一口流利的英語，所以他們猶豫開始一段與你的對話�；蛘咭苍S這只是因為根據(jù)中國傳統(tǒng)家庭價值觀,有什么樣的規(guī)則,他們期望人們遵守這些傳統(tǒng)價值觀(海外華人),但是不知道他們是否應該強加于你。這取決于你的家教(既家長對海外華人的教育，是否認同其中國身份)
Charles Scott
Jan 25 2011: Hello, Geng Zhang! I appreciate your feelings about "something that's neither." From my perspective, this feeling further represents one of the strengths of China and so many Chinese people. You are learning to grow beyond borders and the "something that is neither" may well represent a state of mind or state of being that transcends the narrowness of identification with nation states. Learning to live with that sense is a profound cognitive leap forward, I think. I work with Chinese university students in Canada and have visited China. There is little doubt in my mind that Martin Jacques' thesis is valid and I am quite excited about the prospects.
你好,張耿!我很欣賞你寫的感受,兩者皆否。從我的角度來看,這種感覺則代表了中國的優(yōu)勢之一(大概是指中華文化堅定的傳承在海外華人身上而不同別的國家的移民二代，即使他有了一些變化以及和別的文化的融合，這已經很了不起),所以有許多中國人。你或許正在學習如何超越種族和文化邊界的一種偉大變化,兩者皆否“很可能代表一種思想狀態(tài)或存在的狀態(tài),已經超越了狹隘的國家認同。學習生活在這個意義上是一場深刻的認知的飛躍,我認為。我在加拿大與中國大學生一起共事，還訪問了中國。毫無疑問,我認為馬丁雅克論文是有效的,并且我很興奮這樣的前景。(大概是指中華文化崛起對于世界的變化)
Vivian Chow
Jan 25 2011: I think it did not matter where Job was brought up as he reminds me of a NPR story about a China-born-China-raised mix-raced girl in a Shanghai singing competition, she also felt so different with others despite her language fluency as the others. I assume it has something to do with what Martin's idea of Chinese people having the united perception of singular race (basically I think What Chinese people think who are Chinese should be those with dark hair with a Chinese-look face), somehow the identity comes from the outer appearance. I think it's nobody to blame as when you are in China, if you saw someone with "foreigner's look", you will see him as a foreigner in the first place; but my American friend told me, if you saw a Chinese-look person on the street, you always assume him to be an American citizen first.
The NPR link:
我認為生活環(huán)境重要性不是這么強大，他讓我想起了一個NPR(美國一個電臺)的故事：一個在中國土生土長的混血女孩在上海的一個歌唱比賽里的表現(xiàn),她也覺得與他人不同,盡管她的中文甚至比其他人流暢。我認為中國人一定認同馬丁的看法，在美國的看法中華人是一個讓人感到奇異的種族(基本上在我的觀念中，認為誰是中國的條件應該是那些黑色的頭發(fā)和一個中國模樣的臉),不知怎么的，華人身份來自于外觀。我相信沒人會懷疑你在中國被人覺得長著一幅外國人的臉的時候，你會首先被當做一個外國人,但我的美國朋友告訴我,如果你看到一個長者中國臉的人走在街上,你總是認為他首先是一個美國公民。(抱歉，我不太懂他的意思，難道是說中國擁有文化認同和種族認同雙重的概念而美國則不是嗎？)
na Zhang
Jan 25 2011: Chinese are still not accustomed to mix-raced people appear in their daily life as compatriots。
中國在生活中仍不習慣于他們的混血同胞...
Hsin Wang
Jan 25 2011: Hey, look, it's an Asian get together, lol.
I know how you feel, though. I've been in the United States from Taiwan ever since I was 8. I've achieved reasonable success with English, maintain my Mandarin Chinese and Taiwanese for the most, embraced the American culture, and deeply respect my roots and live and think by its teachings. Yet, here in the States, I am still different from most people I meet. Within my community, I'm perceived as an Asian American, in that they think I was born and raised here in the States. Asians from abroad also think me an Asian America. Other Asian Americans, however, still consider me a "FOB"--with unharming humor. And then in Asia, I'm considered American, or, "the kid who grew up in America."
While none of the definitions were untrue, it seems that no matter where I go or who I'm with, I am still considered a foreigner.
我知道你的感覺,雖然。我自從我8歲的時候就已經從臺灣來到美國。我在英語上達到了恰當?shù)乃?我堅持能講普通話和臺灣話。盡管我融入了美國文化,但我也深深尊重我的根、曾經的生活和思考它的教義。然而,在美國,我仍然不同于我所見的大多數(shù)人。在我的社區(qū),我被認為是一個亞裔的美國人，而他們在美國土生土長。亞洲人也認為我是一個來自國外的亞裔美國人。其他亞裔美國人,但是,仍然認為我是一個“離岸”(既非土生土長的美國人)——一個無傷大雅的幽默。然后在亞洲,我被尊為美國人,或者,“在美國長大的小孩。”
雖然每一個定義都是不真實的,看來,無論我去哪里或我,我仍然被認為是一個外國人。(大概是指因為他仍遵循中華文化的指引，因而在文化上被美國人認為是半路來的，而在國外則？我不太明白是什么原因，反正應該是回復那個中荷混血的)
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 24 2011: Well, I am a (Han) Chinese (sorry, I am still not used to call myself Han cause that's just never occurred to me the necessity of pointing this out, but in this context it seems so), and I agree most of the part Jim said the part about how would we feel about our race, and how would we feel about the authority. Learned in middle school and high school's history classes, we understood it took a really long period and outrageous efforts to unite this country since Qin, and therefore we treasure this and intend to maintain the solitary no matter how diverse the sections are and no matter how differently thinking we might be. And it worked even when Man (other than Han) governed the country in Qing. I never felt that my classmates or playmates were threatened by me because of my race or I was threatened by them because their ethical identities. The emphasis on racial differences was realized by me since the Western media came along in China and made their speeches.
嗯,我是一個(漢族)中國人(對不起,我還是不習慣稱自己為漢族，造成這種情況只是因為我從未想到過它的必要性,但在該上下文中,我似乎應該指出這點, ),我同意吉姆說的大多數(shù)的部分，這部分是關于我們如何看待我們的人種,我們將如何看待權力。在初中和高中的歷史課程,我們理解我們自從秦漢以來花了驚人的時間和努力來統(tǒng)一這個國家， ,因此我們珍惜這和打算維持這種獨立，無論有多么不同種類的部分,無論有多么種不同的思維。這使得我們甚至服從不是不是漢族主導的清朝統(tǒng)治。我從未感覺到我的同學或玩伴因為我的人種或是他們不同的身份而危及到我,。人種的差異被強調是出現(xiàn)在中國的西方媒體的宣傳和演講開啟的。
Christian Mertes
Jan 24 2011: Thanks for these insights. After reading your words it seems to me the dichotomy Jacques points out really exists: having only one race is a huge advantage in a way because you are spared one of the major dividing forces. On the other hand, this way you can never learn how to deal with such differences between people and racism wouldn't necessarily stand out as a negative trait.
(回復樓上)感謝你的這些見解。在閱讀你的言語我發(fā)現(xiàn)了這個分歧真的存在，雅克所指出的:只有一個種族是一個巨大的優(yōu)勢,因為你就就可以節(jié)約精力而省的去對付一個主要分裂勢力。但另一方面,你無法學會如何處理這種人種之間的差異和種族主義，可能這會成為一個顯著消極影響。
Eugen Groh
Jan 24 2011: Hi there Geng
How do you feel about the point Martin was making about how Chinese see their own government? Would you agree that it is true, that there is little distrust or disobedience from the population towards its government, because they see it more as a patron or guardian of civilization, than a constant intruder into their privacy or an institution, that must be monitored suspiciously at all times?
I'm stupefyingly curious about what will happen to our world within my lifetime. We've seen a lot from the fat and delusionally overconfident kid on the global playground during the last century, but China seemed to act unnervingly patient and smart in its slow yet somehow fast rise to the top. I like that in many ways, even if it frightens me in others. If I had to bet on a country, that would be able to bring humanity as a whole through the next century though, I would probably bet on China. Stability becomes paramount now, though it should never come at the cost of human rights.
(問樓上華人)你怎么看待關于雅丁所說的中國人和政府的關系？如果你同意這是真的，那么人民中的一小部分不信任或反抗政府出于他們對于文明或是其他好的方面的擔憂，而不是因為政府是一個闖入者，侵犯了他們的隱私？
我很好奇在我的有生之年世界會發(fā)生什么變化，在上個世紀我們已經看到了很多從脂肪到妄想過剩過于自信的孩子在全球操場肆意奔馳(是指西方吧)。但中國的地位和力量快速的上升并伴隨著他令人畏懼的耐心和智慧。我在很多方面喜歡中國，盡管他在其他方面讓我感到恐懼。如果讓我打賭哪個國家能帶領人類順利的渡過下個世紀，那么我在中國身上押注。穩(wěn)定是至關重要的，但是他不應該以消耗人權作為代價
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 25 2011: Hi Eugen, I think Martin was talking about the big picture. Individually China isn't overtaking anybody soon. Overall yes the citizenry trusts the government and obeys its decisions. However individually conflicts and disharmony exist. There are many radical issues challenge the government's wisdom of providing solutions, such as the overpriced estate, the traffic in big cities and the healthcare for people not working in state-owned institutions. In my case, I am the only child in my family and I have to admit some dissatisfaction towards against the policy because as the only child it makes me harder to take care of my parents way back to China (I am in the U.S.) when they get older and older. I think the fundamental problems is, gains always come with sacrifices. We are more feeling that we are trading individual freedom and interests and opportunities for the overall staggering stability and progression. But that's just my impression.
(回復樓上)Hi Eugen,我認為雅丁更多的是在大局觀上描繪。獨立的中國不是很快的去壓倒誰。整體上是的，市民信任政府和遵循它的決定。然而個體情況上存在沖突和不協(xié)調。有許多挑戰(zhàn)政府的智慧的問題需要提供解決方案,例如定價過高的房地產,大城市里的交通和醫(yī)療照顧的人不在國有研究機構工作。在我的例子中,我是家里唯一的孩子，我和我的家人必須承認對獨生子女政策抱有不滿,因為它使我當他們慢慢變老的時候難以返回中國照顧我的父母(我在美國)。我認為,根本問題是,收益伴隨著犧牲。我們深深的感受到我們的個人自由和利益的發(fā)展以及社會的整體穩(wěn)定和驚人 發(fā)展。但這僅僅我的感受。省略一部分
Tanner Caron
Jan 24 2011: What a fundamental topic in the West's future. As an American, I think it would be interesting and useful to add a 16th executive department to our government dedicated to researching and understanding future world affairs on a new level.
在西方的未來中什么是基本的主題呢。作為一個美國人,我認為這將是有趣和有用的即增設一個致力于在新的高度上研究和了解未來世界事務行政部門
Lorne Kelly
Jan 24 2011: I had no idea about that canal! I suddenly have a strong desire to row it. Almost 2000km, and much of it is still operational - simply amazing!
我從不知道那運河(指京杭大運河)!我突然有一種強烈的愿望在那運河里劃船！將近2000公里,其中的許多仍然在運轉——簡單地令人驚訝!
William Kerney Jan 24 2011: Ugh. He makes a lot of errors in this talk, some serious, some not so serious. Indulge me as I put on my pedantic hat.
I'd respect his views more if he could pronounce the words correctly. I flinched when he said Qin and Guanxi. Seriously, if you're a commentator on China, you can afford to spend the 6 weeks it takes to learn to pronounce the pinyin correctly. And the Holy Roman Empire was around "2000 years ago"? What? Well, he probably meant to say the Roman Empire, but still.
No serious challenges to Chinese power in 1000 years? Heh. I guess the Mongols and turnover in dynasties every so often never happened.
More seriously, if he honestly thinks that Hong Kong's one country two systems policy is working as promised, he's either uninformed or willfully deceiving us. There's no self-rule there (as Martin says), in the sense that people can actually vote for their government, or even that they have elections in the normal sense of the word.
I see he was editor for Marxism Today...
呃。他說了不少錯誤,一些嚴重的,一些不太嚴重。請允許我戴上我的迂腐的帽子
我尊重他的觀點，假如他能把字讀正確那就更好了。比如當他說“秦”和“關系”的時候。說真的,如果你是一個評論員在中國,你就能去花6周去學會發(fā)音正確的拼音。以及，神圣羅馬帝國大約是“2000年前”?我沒聽錯嗎?恩,他也許想說羅馬帝國,但這仍然...
在1000年中沒有一個外部勢力能向中國發(fā)出嚴重的挑戰(zhàn)？我猜蒙古人顛覆王朝之類的行為從未經常發(fā)生吧(應該是帶有幽默意義的反諷，但是沒辦法很好的結合意譯和直譯，干脆直譯為主)
更嚴重的一些錯誤是，如果他真的認為香港的一國兩制政策的工作是做出的承諾,那么他要么是不了解要么蓄意欺騙我們。那里沒有自治(正如馬丁說)，在這個基礎上,某種意義上人們可以投票支持他們的政府,甚至他們有正常意義上的選舉。
我覺得他(馬丁)在撰寫現(xiàn)代的馬克思主義(我也不太明白他說的到底指出了馬丁的什么錯誤，估計后半部分才是他想說的，不過譯者一如既往的覺得他無法理解一國兩制的基礎，就如視頻中馬丁所言，所以才說了最后一句，可能他覺得馬丁在編故事，ABOUT 馬克思主義)
Christian Mertes Jan 24 2011: Let me address at least one of your criticisms: when he said no challenge to the Chinese state's power he meant something comparable to the church or other forces from within the system. Attacks from external forces (i.e. other states) are no threat to his argument.
(回復樓上)讓我至少有個地方來批評你吧:當他說沒有挑戰(zhàn)中國政府的權力，實際上是指諸如可以比得上西方歷史上的教堂或其他之類的力量,是從系統(tǒng)內部。攻擊來自外部力量(即其他國家)(譯：即上文的蒙古)都沒有威脅到他的論點。
James Arpa
Jan 25 2011: The challenges are not visible due to suppressive central power. You mentioned church, if you mean something in the category of religion, I refer you to the Tibetans crackdowns and xinjiang's turnouts. The latter happened just one year ago. Both were from within the system.
(回復樓上)中央權力面臨的挑戰(zhàn)是看不見的抑制。你提到的教會,如果你是指某種意義上的宗教,那么我建議你去鎮(zhèn)壓西藏以及xj的政治上投票看看。后者是發(fā)生在一年前。這兩者都從系統(tǒng)內部
Tina Zhang 0 Jan 25 2011: Well，comparing with the other countries,I think you should recognize that the Chinese policy about ethnic minority is very successful. At least you can hardly find discrimination against those peoples in Han.
About Tibet,actually I am realy confused that why so many westerners like Dalai Lama ,even thought he used to be one of the biggest slave owners in the world. If you know something about Tibet's history,you will find the truth is quiet different from what they said,
(回復樓上)好吧,與其他國家相比,我認為你應該認識到中國的政策對少數(shù)民族是非常成功的。至少你很難在漢族中找到那些種族歧視。關于西藏,其實我真的疑惑,為什么如此多的西方人喜歡達賴喇嘛,即使他曾經是其中的世界上最大的奴隸主。如果你知道一些關于西藏的歷史,你會發(fā)現(xiàn)真相是與他們所說的是如此的不同。
The Kurgan In Disguise +1 Jan 25 2011: Tina,
Ethnic genocide and the ongoing destruction of the Uyghur culture might be considered "very successful" policy by Han people. De facto segregation in all government and social functions is the truth for China's ethnic minorities. The Han still treat them (just like they treat anyone else they deem inferior) like absolute shit, and the Uyghurs hate the Han for this.
The Han conquest of mainland China (and continued conquest) is on par with the old European/American view of manifest destiny. Europeans spread across the Americas taking land from others just as the Han spread across China taking land. Both ruled, wiped out, and gave the surviving minorities reservations and autonomous regions.
(回復樓上張?zhí)崮?
Tina，漢人可能對于種族屠殺和正在進行的破壞維吾爾族文化的政策覺得”非常成功“。事實上的種族隔離存在于所有的政府和社會服務中，這是中國的少數(shù)民族面臨的真相。漢仍然把他們(就像他們對待其他人一樣,他們認為劣質)當大便一樣,回族絕對因此而恨漢族。
漢族征服中國大陸(而且這種征服是持久的)就等同于舊歐洲/美國人的觀點：命運站在他們一邊。歐洲人遍布美洲一些土地，就像漢族從其他民族那接手中國的其他土地。兩者都是裁決,消滅,驅除，然后給了幸存的少數(shù)民族保留地和自治區(qū)。
Tina Zhang
Jan 26 2011: I am a Chinese student in one of the best high schools in the richest province.What I said is from my own experience.All of my classmate have never thought of that the ethnic issue will be a PROBLEM to China.That is because since we were in primary school, about 6,we have been told that the 56 peoples are all equal and all are the member of the big China's family.My seatmate is a Mogolian.Her father is Mogolian and her mother is Han.But her parents chose Mogolian for her because it will bring her a lot of benifits in both education and special rights,for example,she can have two kids no matter whether her husband is the only child,and as a Han,I can only have one child unless my husband is the only child the same as me.
I recognize that there is must be some problems in Xinjiang and Tibet,or those tragedies would not happened.But I am sure is not related to the discrimminations against the ethnic minority.Actually,in my opinion,that's because the ECONOMY DIFFERENCE.
(回復樓上)
我是一個中國學生，就讀在中國一個最富裕的省份中的最好的高中。我說的是來自我的親身體驗。我所有的同學從來沒有想到,民族問題上對中國會成為一個問題。這是因為我們在小學以來,大約6年級,我們一直被告知了56個民族都是平等的,并且都是中國大家庭的成員。我的同桌是一個蒙古人。她的父親是蒙古人而她的母親是漢族。但是她的父母為她在戶口本上登記為蒙古人,因為它會給她帶來很多的好處，教育方面和一些特殊的權利,例如,她可以有兩個孩子無論她的丈夫是否是獨生子女,而作為一個漢族,我只能有一個孩子,除非我丈夫是獨生子女，就和我一樣。我有意識到在xj和西藏的一些問題,或許那些悲劇本不會發(fā)生。但我肯定這不是歧視或反對少數(shù)民族。實際上,在我看來,這是因為經濟差異。
Tina Zhang +1 Jan 26 2011: Xinjiang has rich oil and gas resources.For long time,all the money from those resources is taken by the central government and PLA(the organization in Xinjiang is very special,called The Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps).Well,the story about the special system in Xinjiang is very long。After Yuan(built by Mogolian) dynasty,Xinjiang has been a province of China.But in the darkestand weakest age of China,1910 to 1949, the Soviet Union try to make it apart.So,after the PRC was established,to fight against those people trying to make Xinjiang independent,the centrel gorvernment set up that organization.
The local people don't benifit a lot from the rare resources.Actually it is a nationwide problem.Shanxi Province, which supports 2 thirds energy in China is faced with the same problem too.
Chinese believe the energy resouces is one of the most essential aspects, the same as military, electricity and banks.All of those are firmly controlled by Beijing.
(同一回復接樓上)
xj擁有豐富的石油和天然氣資源。長期以來,所有開發(fā)這些資源的資金都是從中央政府和人民解放軍(該組織在xj是非常特殊的,稱為xj生產建設兵團)撥發(fā)的。嗯,這個故事在xj的特色制度是有很長的歷史的.自從元(蒙古人建立的王朝)以后、xj已經是中國的一個省。但在中國控制力薄弱的時代,1910年到1949年,蘇聯(lián)試圖讓它與眾不同。所以,中華人民共和國成立后,為了鎮(zhèn)壓那些人試圖讓xj獨立的人,中央政府設立了該組織(指建設兵團)。
當?shù)氐娜藗儧]有受益于那些稀有的資源。其實這是一個全國性的問題。山西省供應全國2/3(原文應該少了個煤炭)能源也面臨著同樣嚴重的問題。
中國人認為,能源資源是國家最基本和重要的部分,就好像軍事、電力和銀行一樣。所有這些都是堅定地受到北京控制的
The Kurgan In Disguise
Jan 26 2011: Tina, The ethnic genocide carried out by the CPC was before you were born. You are right that the current central government has done a great job in stopping ethnic genocide.
"we have been told that the 56 peoples are all equal and all are the member of the big China's family." You just debunked this by explaining economic differences, special rights, favored education, and division into 56 groups. Do you get bonus points in class when you point out that the government propaganda is completely false?
Uyghurs get refused service in Han restaurants and by Han market vendors on a regular basis both inside and outside Xinjiang. Yunnan minorities on the trains hide in the back because the Han just stare at them and take pictures. China's big dysfunctional and unhappy family.
(回復樓上)Tina，
TG是在你出生之前進行的種族屠殺。你是對的,現(xiàn)在中央政府已經做了大量工作在阻止種族屠殺�！拔覀円恢北桓嬷�56個民族都是平等的,并且都是成員的大中國的家庭�！� 你通過經濟差異、特殊權利,教育的青睞,來反駁中國人劃分為56團體。那么你會因為在課堂上指出 政府的宣傳完全是假的而得到額外的獎勵嗎？
在xj以外的漢族那，維吾爾受到餐館和市場攤販拒絕服務的結果。云南少數(shù)民族在列車躲在后面，是因為漢族總是盯著他們并對他們拍照。中國有個大混亂、不幸福的大家庭。
Bill W
Jan 26 2011: Two Corrections.
1. The one country two system concept is not entirely true for Hong Kong. China still have the last say on all the important issues. Wang Dan, one of the student leader from Tiananmen Square protest has just been denied entry into Hong Kong. If one country two system is true, wouldn't you think the pro democracy Hong Kong would welcome Wang Dan. Here is a link to Jan 26 New York Times article about Wang Dan being denied entry.
“In Hong Kong, we no longer enjoy the idea of ‘one country, two systems,' ”
2. The map of Qin, Han dynasty and modern day China are incorrect. Taiwan is not part of China during Qin/Han dynasty and certainly not today. If you have a visa to People's Republic of China you can not enter Taiwan. Please look it up on historic documents and not from the propaganda version of history from the communist China.
1。一國兩制的概念并不是完全正確的。中國在重要的問題上仍有保有決定權。王丹---天AM廣場的抗議學生領袖之一 進入香港 就被否決了。如果一國兩制是真的,你難道不認為贊成民主的香港會對王丹表示歡迎嗎。這里是一個鏈接到1月26日紐約時報文章關于王丹被拒絕入境的新聞。
“在香港,我們不再享受“一國兩制’,”
2。地圖秦、漢王朝和現(xiàn)代中國是不真實的。臺灣在秦漢時期 不是中國的一部分,當然今天也不是 。如果你有一個中華人民共和國的簽證你也不能進入臺灣。請從真實的歷史文件上查詢資料而不是共產主義中國篡改的上面。
Sam Qiu
Jan 27 2011: so what? no matter how, there is a period of time that Taiwan is a part of China, which you can not deny.
那又怎樣?無論如何,有一段時間,臺灣是中國的一部分,你不能否認。
Joana Kompa
Jan 29 2011: how about to let the Taiwanese people decide or are you an imperialist like the West that just claims and conquers? Be careful not to repeat history for the worse :)
讓臺灣的人民自決如何？而不是在西方和所謂的聲明之間掙扎?小心不要重復歷史讓事情變得更糟:)
White Roc
Feb 3 2011: Why didn't the US let the Sioux people decide their own fate? Or why don't let Seminoles take back Florida? Why even bothered to have a war when the South want to be separated?
為什么我們US不讓印第安人決定他們自己的命運?或者為什么不讓塞米諾爾人拿回佛羅里達嗎?為什么甚至發(fā)動一場戰(zhàn)爭當南北要分裂時?
xin ouyang
Feb 22 2011: well, if china can take over taiwan, and start to educate their next generation that taiwan being back is good and taiwan was part of china, then it will work just fine.
I don't support this though.. however, it's done in the past by other people in other nations.
好吧,如果中國可以接管臺灣,并開始來教育他們的下一代,臺灣的回歸就是好的,臺灣是中國的一部分,那么它將工作的很好。
雖然我不支持這個. .然而,在過去做的其他人們在其他國家。(指東西德吧)
Gwayne Li
Feb 24 2011: Hey Joana, have you ever wondered why Taiwanese people talk Mandarin, have the exact same written Language? Or are you defending the Natives which the now Mostly predominated Chinese have Conquered and Assimilated?
IF your defending the Natives, then you should have even a more radical view: Kick all the HAN Chinese out of Taiwan and form a REAL Taiwanese pure blood nation.
If not, then are you going to argue they DO not have the ''same'' written language because of the Simplified vs Traditional Chinese? Or are you somehow also going to add Korea and Japan in your arguments?
I don't defend any subjective opinions here, but I am appalled of people talking without valid arguments / facts... as in Historical Facts.
Have the English set Colony in Australia? yes.
Have the ENglish set Colony in America ? Yes.
Have CHinese set a government in Taiwan Loyal to the Emperor in the Qing Dynasty? Yes.
Have Taiwanese tried to proclaim Independence during the Qing Dynasty? Yes.
Have they Succeeded at that time? No
Have they succeeded with the Guo Ming Dang? Yes
Does Mainland China consider Taiwan to be a Province? Yes
Does Taiwan consider itself to be an Independant Nation? Yes
Are Taiwanese and the mainland Han of the same ethnic Group? Yes (In majority)
Should Taiwan stay Independant? That question is subject to a LOT of subjectivity and personal interest. Too much variables are to be considered and an extensive research should be done in order to present the pros and cons of different aspects: Economical/Social/Political/Ethnical/Individual/Philosophical etc.
All I can say is, there will be notable changes / effects and consequences to the Unification/Assimilation.
Is that GOOOD or BAAAD? That is subject to interpretation depending on the person perceiving the effects.
People should look at everything with Scientific Methodology....
I don't know why people refuse to listen to other point of views.. Why not accept everything with a grain of salt? have ya tried that?
嗨 瓊娜,你有沒有想過為什么臺灣人們用普通話,與大陸有相同的書面語言?或者你是捍衛(wèi)那些現(xiàn)已基本被踢出了中國主導地位，被征服和被吸收的土著人的權力嗎?
如果你的捍衛(wèi)土著人,那么你應該更加激進的觀點:所有的漢族應該被踢出臺灣以及臺灣的純血液形成了一個新的真正的國家。
如果不是,那么你會認為他們沒有書面語言的“相似”嗎,因為大陸的簡化字VS臺灣的繁體字？或者是你好歹也要在你的論點中增加韓國和日本嗎?
我不維護任何主觀的觀點在這里,但我感到驚愕的，這里的人說話,在歷史事實方面沒有有效的論點或事實…。
有英殖民地澳大利亞嗎?是的。
有英殖民地在美國?是的。
清代在臺灣設立一個忠于皇帝的地方政府嗎?是的。
有來自臺灣試圖宣告獨立在清代嗎?是的。
他們成功了嗎?沒有
國民黨成功統(tǒng)治臺灣了嗎?是的
中國大陸是否認為臺灣是一個省?是的
臺灣是否認為自己是一個獨立的國家呢?是的
臺灣和大陸是漢民族的相同嗎?是的(在多數(shù))
臺灣應該保持獨立?這個問題是受到大量的主觀性和個人興趣。太多的變量將被認為是和一個廣泛的研究應該是為了現(xiàn)在的利弊,不同的方面:經濟/社會/政治/民族/個人/哲學等等。我所能說的就是,將出現(xiàn)明顯變化/效果和后果統(tǒng)一/同化。是很魔鬼亦或是很膽小的嗎? 這解釋取決于人們感知的影響。人們應該用科學的方法論去看待一切....我不知道為什么人們拒絕聽其他觀點的. .為什么不接受一些事情?你有試過嗎?
Eugen Groh 20+ Jan 24 2011: The whole world (including myself) owes a lot to the United States, especially in the technological advancement department. Yet somehow I can't help but feel that the air is out now. The future is in robotics and technology, and industrialized nations should have started at least a decade ago to do whatever it takes, to educate its young generation to the finest standard conceivable. It's almost too late now, and since first-rate education could potentially be designed to be addictive, free and easily accessible to everyone in our information age - very soon the west will not even have the educational advantage over developing countries.
Time for politics to stop running around like a decapitated chicken, it's all about not falling completely behind now. Europe once played its part in the rise of America, then America played its major part on the world stage, and soon it will be time for the giant developing countries to take over. Let's hope they play fair.
美國曾對這世界貢獻良多,特別是高科技領域,但是不知為何,我現(xiàn)在卻感到這一趨勢不斷下滑但確無力阻止,未來是機器人技術的世界,工業(yè)化國家至少應該十年前就該排除各種困難用最高標準去教育年輕一代了,現(xiàn)在已經有點晚了,現(xiàn)在我們處于信息時代,任何人都很容易獲得免費的一流教育,很快,西方國家對發(fā)展中國家的教育優(yōu)勢就會喪失殆盡.
就像要按住一只被剁了頭到處亂跑的雞一樣,所有人都希望別落在最后,歐洲曾經在美國的興起發(fā)揮其作用，美國也在屬于他的時間段里獨領風騷,現(xiàn)在輪到大量的發(fā)展中國家取而代之了,希望他們能公正的面對這一使命.
mike a. Jan 25 2011: the future has always been in technology. as for robotics, anyone can throw some pneumatic cyldinders or stepper motors together and program some stuff on a windows PC to make a funny looking robot. the real future is in quantum/molecular computing that will provide the intelligence to turn a puppet into a man, and in nanotechnology to give him self healing skin.
未來一定是屬于技術控的,就像機器人領域,每個人都可以把氣動唧筒和步進電機組裝起來,并在PC上編一段程序,做成一個有趣的機器人,但真正的技術核心還是量子/分子計算技術,他將給機器賦予智能化更趨近人類,同時新的納米技術將實現(xiàn)皮膚的自我修復.
Antnio Frazão
Jan 24 2011: As a Portuguese, I am proud to belong to a country that as a long tradition on respect and tolerance towards other races, dispite our history of colonization. We where the first country in the west to abolish slavery. And, dispite al criticism that may be around the question of our decolonization, we bild an organization of portuguese-speaking states that is an example for many countries. So, I can only view a world where respect and tolerance is the fundamental key to growth an prosperity. I can not accept a world dominance based on race supremacy.
Europe as fought the war of wars about that, and painfully understude that can never be the way. I fear that the race for economic growth, and for that only, as made us blind and and forgiving abou the lessons of history. I coulnd accept a "wolrd leadership" that not involves respect and human rigths. Because of this I am very sceptical about Chinas "dominace". Even in an economic bases.
作為一個葡萄牙人,我為我的國家擁有悠尊重和容納其他種族的悠久歷史感到自豪.縱觀我們的殖民史,我們是西方第一個廢除奴隸制的國家,針對周圍的質疑,我們創(chuàng)建了葡語國家組織為其他國家作出了榜樣.因此我認為對于全世界來說,對不同種族的遵守和寬容才是增長和繁榮的關鍵因素,我不能接受一個種族主義的世界領導者.
歐洲對戰(zhàn)爭有著痛苦的經驗,并且深刻領悟到再也不能重復那段歷史了,我認為單純的經濟競賽,使我們容易忽視和歷史的教訓,我不能接受排除了平等和任泉的"世界領導者",因此,我對中國的"優(yōu)勢地位"持懷疑態(tài)度,即使是在經濟領域.我很費解一些西方人，總是自負的認為比中國人更加了解中國？！ 這群老外還真以為研究了紀念中國歷史就明白中國人的生活了,中國最大的
特點就是表面工作，書面上的東西都是有內涵的，看不了內涵就只能看到表面的中國演講者對中國有一定的了解，但這些評論者都是大傻叉
mark下 等回家再看..應該沒火星吧，MARK一記。視頻看過了，評論沒看過。
馬丁還是很了解中國的，下面一些評論的外國人自以為很了解中國的樣子。
特別是說到種族主義，我大學就有幾個回族同學，完全沒感覺到有任何區(qū)別，除了吃飯。